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Bush Makes Surprise Visit to Baghdad

Iraq Bush Visit to Baghdad

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#21 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 10:43 PM

aphrael, on Nov 27 2003, 09:39 PM, said:

Apparently, I will not agree with any of you who like Bush.
Lil likes Bush?   :o
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#22 Shalamar

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:10 PM

Aphrael, I lost family over there less than a month ago. You are most certainly allowed and welcome to your opinion, and I to mine.

Lol CJ, freaked is putting it mildly methinks :hehe:
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#23 Rov Judicata

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:13 PM

Good for him. It's the least he can do.

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Lil likes Bush?

She keeps it a closely guarded secret. Shhhhhhhh.

And my two cents: The flip side of calling every criticism of Bush mere bashing is claiming out of nowhere that everything he does is politically motivated. I swear, if the NY Times ran a frontpage story stating that "Bush cures cancer!", one side would claim that the cure to cancer was politically motivated, and the other side would claim the Times was bashing Bush for not curing AIDS.
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#24 jon3831

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:18 PM

Good for Mr. Bush. In my mind, this isn't about him, but about the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that are over there. Nothing is too good for them, IMHO, and having dinner with the Commander-in-Chief is terrific for morale, especially if said CinC flies into a war zone to do it.

So, grandstanding? Maybe.

PR stunt? Maybe in effect.

Good for force morale? You betcha.

And that makes it all worth it.
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#25 Shalamar

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:22 PM

jon3831, on Nov 27 2003, 10:18 PM, said:

Good for Mr. Bush. In my mind, this isn't about him, but about the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that are over there. Nothing is too good for them, IMHO, and having dinner with the Commander-in-Chief is terrific for morale, especially if said CinC flies into a war zone to do it.

So, grandstanding? Maybe.

PR stunt? Maybe in effect.

Good for force morale? You betcha.

And that makes it all worth it.
Agreed Jon, Agreed
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#26 jon3831

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:40 PM

Question for  Vapor Trails and aphrael:

What is your opinion on this:

Senator celebrates Thanksgiving with U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
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#27 Delvo

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:45 PM

To be displeased wtih THIS of all things just proves one prejudiced and beyond all reason, basing "conclusions" in various cases only on grudges rather than paying attention to the facts at hand. I hated Clinton, but I was willing to admit it when he'd done something right (or seemed to at the time) once in a while. I even stood up and cheered for him at one point. Judging each case on its own merits is the way to go, not just sulking and glaring at everything all the time because one's political philosophy requires one to act like everything a certain person does is wrong/evil/stupid/scheming whether there's really sound reason to think that or not.

And it's NOT even an election year... but twisting things enough to say that apparently just yields too good of an excuse to mudsling ANYthing and EVERYthing Bush might ever do that anyone likes, from now on.

#28 Shalamar

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:51 PM

I have never been fond of Senator Clinton, but I do have to stand up and applaud her for that.

Thank you Senator Clinton.
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#29 Godeskian

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:54 PM

i have no idea how is security allowed it, but i'll give Bush this much, the man has nerve

happy thanksgiving folks

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#30 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 03:01 AM

aphrael, on Nov 27 2003, 06:39 PM, said:

Apparently, I will not agree with any of you who like Bush.
This kind of assumption pisses me off.  ANYONE who's spent ANY amount of time in OT knows DAMNED well that I LOATHE Bush with a burning passion.  It steams the crap out of me that someone who assumes that just because I agree with ONE thing he has done I must LIKE him.  In my not so humble opinion that kind of assumption is NO better than the assumption made by some that disagreement with Bush's policies, dislike of him and/or opposition to the War is synonymous with treason.  It's stupid.  

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#31 Lord Ravensburg

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 04:00 AM

I certainly thought that the menu for the Bush family's Thanksgiving dinner was a completely irrelevant news item, particularly considering how much coverage it was getting.  Nice little trick, and quite timely too.

#32 Delvo

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 04:58 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Nov 28 2003, 02:01 AM, said:

It steams the crap out of me that someone who assumes that just because I agree with ONE thing he has done I must LIKE him.
Hey, I've been accused of far more than liking him here (wildly ignorantly fictional BS things like worshipping, and being willing to follow if he were to send tanks down the streets and turn the USA into a dictatorship, and being eager to rejoice if he were to send the military anywhere at all at any time), just because I have the audacity to like TWO things he's done: the war on terrorism and the tax cut. Nevermind that I hate practically everything else he's done, if you don't act like he's the Devil himself, it's all the same to most of his enemies.

#33 MuseZack

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 10:59 AM

Count me as a Bush nonfan who thought this was a classy and decent thing of him to do, that no doubt was received warmly by the troops he visited and was a real morale boost.  

Was it on some level political theater?  Sure, but then again everything a sitting President does is on some level political theater.  Unlike, say, the idiotic stunt on the Abraham Lincoln deck, this was good political theater that came across as a sincere gesture to the people in harms' way and not as a self-aggrandizing, hubristic campaign ad at taxpayers expense.  So good for Bush-- this time, at least.
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#34 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 12:52 PM

Quote

LR: I certainly thought that the menu for the Bush family's Thanksgiving dinner was a completely irrelevant news item, particularly considering how much coverage it was getting. Nice little trick, and quite timely too.

This entire affair was an amazing episode in how the administration, Military, and USSS pulled a fast one on the press.  Kudos to the security personnel and officials who organized this one.
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#35 aphrael

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 01:33 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Nov 28 2003, 02:01 AM, said:

aphrael, on Nov 27 2003, 06:39 PM, said:

Apparently, I will not agree with any of you who like Bush.
This kind of assumption pisses me off.  ANYONE who's spent ANY amount of time in OT knows DAMNED well that I LOATHE Bush with a burning passion.  It steams the crap out of me that someone who assumes that just because I agree with ONE thing he has done I must LIKE him.  In my not so humble opinion that kind of assumption is NO better than the assumption made by some that disagreement with Bush's policies, dislike of him and/or opposition to the War is synonymous with treason.  It's stupid.  

Lil
It was a general statement.  I'm a Texan who has despised him since he ran for governor here.  The state is much worse off since he and his puppet governor took over.

:elf:

#36 HubcapDave

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 02:25 PM

Vapor Trails, on Nov 27 2003, 02:48 PM, said:

Not impressed.

It's been 6 months (?) since the war started. Over 400 American soldiers dead-and we've lost more soldiers now than since the offical "end" of the war. No WMDs. $87 billion put aside to help restructure Iraq-which I find to be laughable, especially in regards to the economy of that country. I find it ridiculous that we are trying to rebuild the economy of a country we blasted to pieces while here in the U.S., we have problems with OUR OWN economy.

IMO, it's at best a hollow gesture. And I stand by that opinion.

:smirk:
You know, Vapor, go ahaead and think what you want about Bush. but would you PLEASE get your facts straight?

Bush never signaled an "end" to the war in Iraq.

Of the $87 billion, $20 billion goes to Iraq reconstructon. The rest is for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You're right of no WMDs found yet, but plenty of evidence that the programs for making them were active.

And lastly, we're rebuilding the infrastructure of their country (one which Saddam managed to neglect whilst builing his lavish palaces), not their economy.

And, unless you've been living in a vacuum, you should have heard by now that our economy is growing quite nicely, thank you!


As to my take on this? It was the appropiate thing to do, and it was keeping with the character of the man to do such a thing.

#37 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 02:40 PM

Yes aphrael I know it was a general statement.  That's my problem with it.  I hate Bush as much as you do.  So please don't lump everyone who approves of him going to Iraq in with people who disagree with your hatred of him.  


Lil
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#38 Rov Judicata

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 02:47 PM

Obviously, Bush's visit yesterday has gotten a lot of attention in Baghdad.

http://www.washingto...-2003Nov27.html

Quote

Given the tightly held plans, few Iraqis had heard of Bush's visit Thursday night. The news filtered out as it does so often in the capital -- by television, then rumor, then speculation among some over the real intentions.

"We'll have to wait a week to see whether the visit was for the good or bad," Ibrahim said.

It was a sentiment heard repeatedly in an anxious, suspicious city. Some Iraqis wondered whether a more dramatic change was in store and whether Bush came to visit personally with L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator of Iraq.

Quote

"It was a dangerous trip," said Ahmed Qasim, 23, a student at Baghdad University. "He may have come to support his troops and soldiers. He may have wanted to make them feel that there is someone who cares about them."

Qasim then turned his attention to his own city.

"We hope Bush will give orders to make things better in the future," he said.

There's a trend I've been noticing from quotes of Baghdad residents, which finally solidfied in my mind after this incident. Namely: That making things better in Baghdad would be as simple as Bush giving a few orders.

There's also the constant undercurrent of suspicion. Given the previous government they were under, and the mistakes of Bush 41, I can't blame them.

Hrm..
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#39 Norville

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 07:57 PM

Ah, well, since it was probably paranoid for me to have said what I did (that it was political and will get him re-elected, but it was still a good gesture), heck, I'm sure it was political for Hillary Clinton to show up there, too. If I'd known she was going to do it, too, at the time I posted, I'd have commented on that. Yawn, whatever. (The Commander-in-Chief going to Iraq to cheer up the troops on a holiday beats the Hollywood weirdos who are going over to the Middle East claiming that they "cannot allow" such violence to continue, as if they know any real way to solve the endless problems.)
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#40 Kosh

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:38 PM

Quote

Bush never signaled an "end" to the war in Iraq.

Maybe not in so many words, but Bush did declare victory.



Quote

You're right of no WMDs found yet, but plenty of evidence that the programs for making them were active.

I've been out of the loop for a while, have they found more then empty trailers?
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