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Major Earthquake in Iran

Natural Disasters Iran Earthquake 2003

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#121 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:48 AM

Gaiate, on Dec 31 2003, 10:41 PM, said:

So you think every citizen of Iran is our enemy?  If not, the same rule would apply.

--Te
It's hard to say. I won't go so far as to say, for certain, every person in Iran is our enemy. However, it's awfully hard to not look at it that way when you see people, even little children, in the streets saying: Down with America. Death to America, ect.


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So say you are the person walking away from a situation where you could easily save someone's life (say the innocent child of someone you dispise)

I'm sitting here thinking about your example...A innocent child of an enemy, and I'm running through my mind what I would do...I'd have to say that I'm not so sure I'd be able to walk away. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd try to help just the child.

HOWEVER! If that child, at anytime, had shouted or chanted "Death to you! You're evil!" or any of that kind of BS...I don't think I'd help that child.

And that's exactly what, I'll go on a limb, and say most of Iranian's seem to do. Of course, that could be just the media bias...showing only those clips to increase ratings and stir up public opinion.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#122 Uncle Sid

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:52 AM

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As for the Christian thing, same thing. If you haven't done anything...He couldn't hold you to account, now could He?

Uh, yeah, he could and likely would hold you to account.  See the parable of the good Samaritan.  

In any event, a Christian isn't really interested in who is an enemy and who isn't.  The only enemy is whatever prevents you from doing good.  If your country prevents you from helping out innocent people in another country for no other reason than political gain, then your country is an obstable.  

Happily, the US is acting appropriately.  Although the US isn't an officially Christian country, it's acting in a Christian manner.  For me, the US has my loyalty because it acts in a Christian manner as much as any worldly power does.  If it didn't make such an effort, then it wouldn't be the country for me.  While it does occasionally act in the role of obstacle in some things, for the most part, we try and keep our hearts in the right place.

Also, being of the firm belief that being a good Christian also means that you do get some tangible rewards from the effort, there is the fact that our presence there helps dispel the distortions that the Iranian leadership try and foist on their population to encourage them to support their extremist stance.  While I personally am of the opinion that people tend to get the government that they deserve, nevertheless there are ways in which the few can exercise power over the many if they are unscrupulous enough.  In the end, with the help of our example, that hold can be eroded to the point where real change for the better can happen in Iran or countries like it.

Edited by Uncle Sid, 01 January 2004 - 01:53 AM.

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#123 GiGi

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Posted 01 January 2004 - 02:22 AM

^ Well said, Uncle Sid!
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#124 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 01:22 PM

Confirmed death count is now just shy of 30,000

This is also something I wasn't aware of:

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Farojpour said the supply of opium to the city's addicts had been disrupted. Before the temblor, an estimated 20 percent of people over the age of 15 in a population of 80,000 were believed to be addicted.

Methadone, codeine and sterile syringes were being given to drug addicts, Farojpour said.

20%? Man, I thought *we* had a drug problem...

Predictions for the final toll remain between 30 and 40,000.

Assuming the population count is accurate, and the death toll is mostly or all within the city, that means nearly half the population of Bam was wiped out.

It just gets worse and worse.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 03 January 2004 - 01:36 PM.

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~~ Josh, winning the argument.

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#125 Nick

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 01:59 PM

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So, for all those who agree with the US sending aide to our enemy, let me ask you this...What if this was Nazi Germany? What if back then Nazi Germany had had a disaster like this? Would you people still say: "Yes, we should put aside our differences and help them. It doesn't matter how many Jews they've slaughtered, they need our help."

Yup, I would.  People are people, and they're suffering and we can help them--we can be the better person and put aside political and cultural differences and lend a helping hand.  And we essentially did.  See also: The Berlin Airlift

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America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can it be, in a country of such wealth that this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Then a representative of the NAAGB (The National Association of Green Bugs) shows up on Night Line and charges the ant with "Green Bias" and makes the case that the grasshopper is the victim of 30 million years of greenism. Kermit the frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when he sings "It's Not Easy Being Green."

Wow . . . that's really kind of offensive . . . but more importantly, it has little to do with this discussion.  We're not talking about welfare and social programs, we're talking about lending emergency aid in a disaster.  The Iranian victims of this disaster, though some may be our enemies and their government hates us, are hard-working people with hopes and dreams and fears, and they need help because their country can't cope with something this big all by itself.

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Ah, so that's why our national deficit is so high.  And that's also why we are so interested in obtaining oil and other raw materials.

The national deficit is so high because our government can spend more than it takes in by issuing bonds and other securities.  These are held by the public and help to strengthen the economy by creating a safe and reliable investment option.  Futhermore, our currency is based on an abstract concept of "faith and credit" in the United States.  It isn't backed by anything with actual intrinsic value, so that creates a deficit of sorts as well.  Foreign aid has little to do with the national debt.

As for oil, the U.S. has huge amounts of oil reserves in our own country.  It's just a lot more expensive to drill our own oil, because no one wants a rig in their backyard, there's lobbying, labor costs are higher, etc.  We'd have to tie up and gag all of the environmentalists, build tons of rigs, etc. and we'd all have the pleasure of paying $10 a gallon at the pump for 100% made in the USA gasoline.  But in theory, we could do it.

To each their own, but we're helping them, and I agree with it.

-Nick

#126 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 07:38 PM

Nick, on Jan 3 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

We'd have to tie up and gag all of the environmentalists,
And this would be a bad thing?  ;)  :p
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#127 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 12:18 PM

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Sid: The Mideast might have the biggest loudmouths, but there's people in Africa, even sub-Saharan Africa that are all too happy to chant Death to America.

Task Force Ranger and the Battle of the Black Sea were just a little over a decade ago.  That should have educated everyone to the fact that people there are all to willing to do more than just chant Death to America.
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#128 DWF

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 12:48 PM

Gotta love this woman. :D

http://story.news.ya...iran_earthquake

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Mazandarani's rescue began after workers from the Iranian Red Crescent spotted an arm poking from the rubble.

"They thought it was a dead body and then they dug out this lady of 97 years old who was wrapped up inside her bed," Odberg told reporters near the Red Cross hospital where Mazandarani is recuperating.

"She tells that just before the earthquake, her family had brought her food and drink into her bedroom," Oldberg said after meeting Mazandarani on Sunday morning after she'd had a night's sleep and eaten. "That and being wrapped up in her own bed probably saved her life."

The woman told Odberg that while under the rubble, she spent her time "reciting verses from the Quran, praying to God and thanking Allah for being alive."

On Sunday, Mazandarani still showed a big appetite.

"I need food," she was heard saying when an Associated Press photographer visited the field hospital where she is being treated. Mazandarani said she is 97 and that her family died in the quake on Dec. 26. She gave the names of her two children and said she had two grandchildren. The Red Crescent is now trying to trace her extended family.

Hopefully they can find more of her family. :unsure:
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