Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Major Earthquake in Iran

Natural Disasters Iran Earthquake 2003

  • Please log in to reply
127 replies to this topic

#21 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 05:48 PM

This is in response to LOTS.

ROTK SPOILERS FOLLOW:

s

p

o

i

l

e

r

s

Right before Gandalf leaves Rohan for Gondor he tells Theoden that he must go to Gondor's aid if Gondor lights their beacon fires.  Theoden's response:  "And where was Gondor when the Westfold was burning."  A low point in the movie and an exemplar of the weakness of men and divisiveness.  I know LOTR is a work of fiction but it is very much a story about the asendance of man and about both the good and bad sides of human nature.  

Luckily Theoden changed his tune and when the fires were lit he said "And Rohan shall answer."  Good thing too.  Had he adhered to the attitude you are advocating, Sauron would have won.  

Lil
Posted Image

#22 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 05:49 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 27 2003, 11:16 PM, said:

What has Iran done for us lately?
LoTS,

so you approve of being a person who is willing to let a fellow human being suffer and die without lifting a finger to helpb ecause they've never helped you?

remind me to never be in mortal peril near you.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#23 Aurelius

Aurelius

    Master of the Empire

  • Islander
  • 803 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 05:50 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 27 2003, 10:25 PM, said:

Aurelius, on Dec 27 2003, 06:16 PM, said:


The local government in Iran is simply not capable of handling this disaster as well as the US authorities handled the attacks on 9/11.

Where's the morals of saying that just because the country is a political enemy it shouldn't be worthy of aid in a major humanitarian crisis.

Thank God the US government doesn't share your opinions.

Hail All
Aurelius
This isn't the first time we've disagreed, Aurelius. And I doubt it'll be the last.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Middle East tired of the USA sticking it's nose into their affairs? Oh, but it's OK for us to do so IF AND ONLY IF it benefits that country. They don't want us sticking our nose in their affairs...let them deal with it on their own.

Although, unfortunately, Bush has pretty much already said the US will help. So the debate of whether we should aid our enemy is a moot point.
From what I understand about the situation and I'm by no means an authority or any sort of expert on it, the Middle East doesn't want the US interfering in it's politics, internal and external affairs, especially since it seems that they feel that such interference was not asked for.

This, I feel has nothing got to do with the current situation. What we're talking about here is a castastrophe of huge proportions. If Iran had said (like they said to Israel) that we don't want your help, then, by all means the US or whoever it is, is perfectly justified in taking the course you suggest.
However Iran has asked for aid. The US has shown that it's capable of putting aside past differences and giving mercy aid when it is most needed. In disaster cases like this, all that matters is preserving life. Squabbles over political issues cannot play a part....not without causing further pain and suffering.

Your attitude seems to say that "ohh just because they didn't want our help in the past, then they definitely shouldn't get it when they REALLY need it." I'm sorry, I just can't understand that sort of thinking.

And yes, we've disagreed in the past and definitely will in the future. Of that I've no doubt, because a lot of your opinions and attitudes clash strongly with my own.
Takes all sorts to make the world go around

Hail All
Aurelius
"If I had all the answers, I'd run for God"
Cpl. Max Klinger, M*A*S*H

#24 Aurelius

Aurelius

    Master of the Empire

  • Islander
  • 803 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 05:53 PM

Godeskian, on Dec 27 2003, 10:49 PM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 27 2003, 11:16 PM, said:

What has Iran done for us lately?
LoTS,

so you approve of being a person who is willing to let a fellow human being suffer and die without lifting a finger to helpb ecause they've never helped you?

remind me to never be in mortal peril near you.
^^Agreed!

Hail All
Aurelius
"If I had all the answers, I'd run for God"
Cpl. Max Klinger, M*A*S*H

#25 Rov Judicata

Rov Judicata

    Crassly Irresponsible and Indifferent

  • Islander
  • 15,720 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 07:12 PM

Cardie, on Dec 26 2003, 02:15 PM, said:

I hope we are willing to send in our rescue and medical people, despite strained political relationships.
Oh, hey, you're right. I'm glad both sides realize that... wait, what's that?

Iran has said it will accept aid from any country except Israel

Never mind... :pout:
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#26 aphrael

aphrael
  • Islander
  • 282 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 07:24 PM

Shalamar, on Dec 26 2003, 03:56 PM, said:

Cardi, according to all the reports I have heard, many countries -includeing the US, are offering to send aid, sniffer dogs etc.
I'm so glad politics are being put aside.  The pictures coming out of there are horrible.  According the the news reports many of the homes were very old and ancient.



:(

:elf:

#27 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,415 posts

Posted 27 December 2003 - 11:57 PM

LotS, if someone punched me in the nose, I'd duck, run and call 911.  Then I'd charge them with assault. However, if their child fell into a swimming pool and was about to drown, I sure as heck wouldn't let the child sink to the bottom because of what the parent did to me.

Cardie
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#28 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,483 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 12:50 AM

So, for all those who agree with the US sending aide to our enemy, let me ask you this...What if this was Nazi Germany? What if back then Nazi Germany had had a disaster like this? Would you people still say: "Yes, we should put aside our differences and help them. It doesn't matter how many Jews they've slaughtered, they need our help."


Quote

LotS, if someone punched me in the nose, I'd duck, run and call 911. Then I'd charge them with assault. However, if their child fell into a swimming pool and was about to drown, I sure as heck wouldn't let the child sink to the bottom because of what the parent did to me.

fair enough.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#29 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 12:53 AM

Godeskian, on Dec 27 2003, 04:49 PM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 27 2003, 11:16 PM, said:

What has Iran done for us lately?
LoTS,

so you approve of being a person who is willing to let a fellow human being suffer and die without lifting a finger to helpb ecause they've never helped you?

remind me to never be in mortal peril near you.
I third that.

The temps in that area have dipped well into freezing two nights in a row now, the people were asleep when the earthquake hit, and most have NOTHING but the clothes on their back.

If you can be so coldly callus as to refuse to help another just because you disagree with the system of government that they live under.

I have never met you and I hope I never shall.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#30 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 12:57 AM

Quote

So, for all those who agree with the US sending aide to our enemy, let me ask you this...What if this was Nazi Germany? What if back then Nazi Germany had had a disaster like this? Would you people still say: "Yes, we should put aside our differences and help them. It doesn't matter how many Jews they've slaughtered, they need our help."

You are seeing things in very simple terms.  It is not all "us and them." Not all Germans were Nazis. There is a gigantic difference between the people of Iran and the government of Iran and I wish you could see that.

It would be no different if America had a major crisis which killed many innocent civilians and countries from afar sent humanitarian aid to help those people who were suffering even though they have problems with America's policies.  It isn't about justice.  It isn't about revenge.  It is about people and how people who are suffering need our help.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#31 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 12:59 AM

We're talking about Civillians injured and killed by a natural disaster here LOTS.  Your stance on this is appalling.  [Rev Bem]  Well Bah Humbug to you too [/Rev Bem]

:wacko:
Posted Image

#32 the 'Hawk

the 'Hawk
  • Islander
  • 5,281 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 01:10 AM

*cough* Godwin *cough*

More to the point-- Iran needs aid. Plain and simple.

Holding a grudge against the Iranian government is one thing. Allowing it to pervade international goodwill and affect the Iranian people is not just petty, it's silly. And short-sighted.

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#33 Lord Ravensburg

Lord Ravensburg

    All your lightsabers are belong to me

  • Islander
  • 533 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 01:46 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 27 2003, 10:16 PM, said:

Again...Where was Iran after 9-11? Hell, where was Iran after the mudslides in CA?

What has Iran done for us lately?
This isn't a case of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.  This is one of the worst humanitarian disasters of the decade.  Tens of thousands of people are dead.  Tens of thousands more need assistance right now or they too may join that number.  Are you honestly going to sit there and say that you're ok with that?

Note that the Iranian government did in fact offer its condolences to America post-9/11.  As far as helping us in material terms, what exactly would they have been able to do but get in the way?  It wasn't like we had entire communities sitting on the brink of starvation.

#34 eryn

eryn

    So, a baby seal walks into a club...

  • Islander
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 02:00 AM

Quote

I, for one, hope that the US DOESN'T send aide. Where was Iran after 9-11? Did they help the US? Hell no!

So, as harsh and cruel as it sounds, if they don't do for us...why should the US do for them? Especially when Iran is NOT an ally of the US. I know if I was a doctor and President Bush said: "Go to Iran and help them." My response would probably be along the lines of: "Go to hell."

:blink:

Are you serious?? You’d wish the deaths of thousands of people out of a sense of revenge?? There is such a thing called basic human decency and compassion you know.

Quote

Josh:You are seeing things in very simple terms. It is not all "us and them." Not all Germans were Nazis. There is a gigantic difference between the people of Iran and the government of Iran and I wish you could see that.

It would be no different if America had a major crisis which killed many innocent civilians and countries from afar sent humanitarian aid to help those people who were suffering even though they have problems with America's policies. It isn't about justice. It isn't about revenge. It is about people and how people who are suffering need our help.

^What he said.

My thoughts go out to them.  :(

mystic

Edited by mystic, 28 December 2003 - 02:11 AM.

If you watch the news and don't like it, then this is your counter program to the news.
Jon Stewart

My Flickr

#35 GiGi

GiGi

    Lipstick wearing PIG kisser!

  • Islander
  • 8,774 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 03:14 AM

I must agree with everyone above... I know many Iranians here in the Bay Area and they are the kindest, nicest people, generous and hospitable.  

The degree of devastation/death toll  they are facing is what ten times what happened on 9-11?

This is a chance for the US to show that they are not anti-Islam as many believe over there, by helping out we can heal some wounds.  

LotS, even if you don't feel any compassion, can you not see that by helping to save lives there they, by their cultural belief, will owe us a debt of gratitude?  (not that I think that should be our motivation).  This could be helpful next time we need a favor.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#36 Shoshana

Shoshana
  • Islander
  • 4,031 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 05:10 AM

Not only am I glad that the US is sending aid to Iran ... I am even happier that Iran is *asking* for aid and expediting the arrival of aidgivers - by not requiring them to apply for visas.

In 1990 - Iran's last big killer quake ... the Iranian gov't didn't want any help...

'shana

#37 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,483 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 09:58 AM

Let's clarify a few things here. The difference between the Iranian government and the Iranian people. And, yes, contrary to the popular belief in this thread, I do realize the difference. HOWEVER, the Iranian people support and aide their government, in the way of taxes, ect. So the old saying: "A friend of my enemy IS my enemy." (can't recall who said it) comes into play.

Second. Iran has already said "We don't want Israel aide." Translation: We don't want aide from Jews. We'd rather all those who need help die before getting aide from flithy Jews."

This is the government you want us to help? Granted, our aide would primarily help the Iranian people...who would then go on with their lives...Pay their taxes, ect and support the very Racist government.

It's very similar to a KKK grandmaster asking for help when is house is on fire. "I need help, but don't send any N*****s to help. I'd rather my family, who is trapped in my house die, before they get aide from the darkies."

Would you help them? Especially if you had a really good friend that was African American?

The money it would cost the USA to send Aide to Iran could be better spent by aiding the people in it's own borders...the homeless, ect. You'd rather take the money, that could be used to help the homeless, the hungry, in our own borders and send it over to Iran???

Hmmmm

President (to the homeless and hungry in America): "Sorry but we spent all our money helping our enemy. We don't have the money to feed you or your children, and as for shelter...It all went to help rebuild Iranian homes. Sorry. Maybe next year, if you'r still alive that is..."
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#38 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,483 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 10:12 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Dec 27 2003, 06:48 PM, said:

This is in response to LOTS.

ROTK SPOILERS FOLLOW:

s

p

o

i

l

e

r

s

Right before Gandalf leaves Rohan for Gondor he tells Theoden that he must go to Gondor's aid if Gondor lights their beacon fires.  Theoden's response:  "And where was Gondor when the Westfold was burning."  A low point in the movie and an exemplar of the weakness of men and divisiveness.  I know LOTR is a work of fiction but it is very much a story about the asendance of man and about both the good and bad sides of human nature. 

Luckily Theoden changed his tune and when the fires were lit he said "And Rohan shall answer."  Good thing too.  Had he adhered to the attitude you are advocating, Sauron would have won. 

Lil
Fiction vs real world? Hmmm.

Alright, I'll bite. Let's use the example you provided. Rohan and Gondor were allies, correct?

The USA and Iran are NOT allies, and it's extremely unlikely that they ever will be. Unless Bush decided to ally himself with a racist government that suppresses it's people, ect.

Now if Rohan and Gondor were enemies I could see your point.

Using your example, it be more like Sauruman: The White asking for aide from Gondor after the Ents attacked his tower.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

The last republican leaning independent on this message board. All others have been silenced and driven off, or outright banned. Only ONE remains. I guess HighLander had it right all along....In the end, there can be only ONE.

#39 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 11:44 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 28 2003, 03:58 PM, said:

It's very similar to a KKK grandmaster asking for help when is house is on fire. "I need help, but don't send any N*****s to help. I'd rather my family, who is trapped in my house die, before they get aide from the darkies."

Would you help them? Especially if you had a really good friend that was African American?
Yes i would.

LotS, you have to understand, I don't care about skincolour, ideology, politics or sexual orientation, especially not if someone is in dire straights.

I care about people, any people, all people, and if someone is hurting near me, thejn I help them, even if they beat me the day before, because I consider it part of the charge of my life to help people when and where I can.

You feel differently, you feel that we should let these people die because they are citizins of a country the US doesn't like. That's fine,

but like i said, i'll make a point to avoid being endangered or criticaly ill around you, as given my own political and social beliefes, i couldn't reasonably expect you to help me.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#40 Lord Ravensburg

Lord Ravensburg

    All your lightsabers are belong to me

  • Islander
  • 533 posts

Posted 28 December 2003 - 12:12 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 28 2003, 02:58 PM, said:

Would you help them? Especially if you had a really good friend that was African American?

Well gee, as an alternative to standing there and watching them die?  

YES!

Quote

The money it would cost the USA to send Aide to Iran could be better spent by aiding the people in it's own borders...the homeless, ect. You'd rather take the money, that could be used to help the homeless, the hungry, in our own borders and send it over to Iran???

This will be my last comment in this thread because it's clear to me now that you are completely off your rocker.  We're not talking about the day-to-day matters of welfare that countries always have to deal with.  An entire city has been DESTROYED and yet you seem to think we should be holding a grudge or splitting hairs.  You've all but said that the loss of so much life doesn't bother you in the least.  I'm sure you feel that you are justified for thinking the way you do, which makes me infinitely grateful that you were not involved in the decision to send aid.  I can honestly say that I have rarely seen such a shameless show of cold insensitivity.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Natural Disasters, Iran, Earthquake, 2003

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users