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Dean's answer to where should Osama be prosecuted.

Politicians Howard Dean Election 2004 2003

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 06:07 PM

http://www.concordmo...2603_2003.shtml

Quote

The Monitor asked: Where should Osama bin Laden be tried if he's caught? Dean said he didn't think it made any difference, and if he were president he would consult with his lawyers for advice on the subject.

It doesn't make any difference? Somehow, I don't think that's going to play well with the US public.

Quote

But wouldn't most Americans feel strongly that bin Laden should be tried in America - and put to death?

Dean's answer?

Quote

"I've resisted pronouncing a sentence before guilt is found," Dean said. "I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials. So I'm sure that is the correct sentiment of most Americans, but I do think if you're running for president, or if you are president, it's best to say that the full range of penalties should be available. But it's not so great to prejudge the judicial system."

This is a tough one for me.

On the one hand, the rule of law is extremely important, and prejudicing juries is most assuredly a bad thing. Obviously, I also support "innocent until proven guilty".

However... on the balance, I think I prefer Bush's calm assurance that Saddam "should get the ultimate penalty". I'm not sure I want a commander in chief who won't step out on a limb and say, "Yeah, I think Osama is guilty", let alone endorse the death penalty.

And Dean lays out his mission statement:

Quote

"The bottom line is, what kind of foreign policy experience do you want in Washington, in the White House?" he said. "Do you want the kind of foreign policy experience that was willing to vote for the Iraq war, or not?"

Very good rhetoric, but what about this, governor?

Oh, and:

Quote

And how will he convince swing voters who weren't so opposed to the war to fire President Bush?

"By going after him on terrorism, where he's really weak," Dean replied.

Yeah, good luck with that.

All in all, I've been paying attention to the candidate for months, and I'm still trying to figure the man out. Given that he's the likely nominee, I'll have plenty of time to learn...

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 26 December 2003 - 06:10 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#2 G1223

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 07:41 PM

That is some answer just like his answer to the question. "How would you wage this war? Answer: Differently.

Differently how?  gets nothing more than mumbles that sound like When France  Germany and Russia decided it would be ok.

Yeah Dean has the backbone of jello that I see from the far left of that party.  Of course we cannot get access to the records he had sealed just before he decided to run for office.( Mostly a tactic to keep his rivals from having ammo based on his behavior as Govenor.)

#3 the 'Hawk

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 07:53 PM

He's probably just circling his wagons until he can come out with a cohesively non-Republican yet still pro-American solution to his desire to get re-elected.

Unless that *was* his cohesive solution. In which case, he's beyond hope.

:cool:
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#4 Rov Judicata

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 08:00 PM

the'Hawk, on Dec 26 2003, 05:53 PM, said:

He's probably just circling his wagons until he can come out with a cohesively non-Republican yet still pro-American solution to his desire to get re-elected.

Unless that *was* his cohesive solution. In which case, he's beyond hope.

:cool:
:lol:.

*goes to edit his sig*.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#5 the 'Hawk

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 08:11 PM

^ Nice.

At some point you need to start scoring who's showed up most often.... ;)

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#6 GiGi

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 08:21 PM

Actually I see Dean's answer as respecting the separation of the Executive and Judicial branches of the government.  Nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, younger Bush is getting called on the constitutionality of Terri's law, as many feel he overstepped the boundaries between Executive and Judicial.  I personally am glad he did, the more I find out about Terri Schiavo, the more I am convinced her husband is trying to murder her!  (see guys, I side with conservatives at times too!!)  But even Jeb's lawyers think the law is doomed.  This may be a good thing overall, because if it is unconstitutional it shouldn't be upheld.  BUT, a human life is at stake and he did what he was able to do.   :wacko:
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#7 Rov Judicata

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 08:37 PM

the'Hawk, on Dec 26 2003, 06:11 PM, said:

^ Nice.

At some point you need to start scoring who's showed up most often.... ;)

:cool:
:cool:

GiGi:

Quote

Actually I see Dean's answer as respecting the separation of the Executive and Judicial branches of the government. Nothing wrong with that.

Granted, separation of powers is extremely important. But nowhere is it written that one branch can't critize another; presidents regularly speak out about supreme court decisions. Presidents criticize what's going on in congress. Congress provides feedback to the president. Congress criticizes the judiciary. The judiciary-- particularly the supreme court-- has written barbs criticizing the actions of the other branches into their decisions. Separation of powers doesn't extend so far that those in other branches lose their right to comment.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#8 prolog

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 11:44 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Dec 26 2003, 11:07 PM, said:

Quote

The Monitor asked: Where should Osama bin Laden be tried if he's caught? Dean said he didn't think it made any difference, and if he were president he would consult with his lawyers for advice on the subject.

It doesn't make any difference? Somehow, I don't think that's going to play well with the US public.
At the same time, do you think a jury in the United States would give him a fair trial?  It sounds trivial, but things like this should be taken into consideration.

#9 Uncle Sid

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Posted 26 December 2003 - 11:54 PM

Sure they could.  I would listen to all of the evidence before determining if he's guilty or not.  There does exist a very slight possibility that he is not guilty.  I'd like to give a defense counsel to have a chance to prove it.  Why?  Because I'm not interested in nailing Osama bin Laden, I'm interested in nailing the people responsible for the WTC and until he's had his day in court, there is a difference between the two.  I want to be as certain as possible that we have the right people, so that they are not able to do this again.  Simply putting any question at all to rest would be worth me assuming that bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty.  

So, yeah, I could try him without prejudice, not because I distrust the government, but because it would be my job to make sure that we got who we're supposed to get.  If bin Laden was freed on evidence, that means we know that we'd have to get someone else.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey

#10 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 12:02 AM

Dean just lost my vote, and any chance he might've had to convince me to vote for him.

Anyone who refuses to go out on a limb and answer a simple question about Osama just shouldn't be in the white House, IMO. I mean Osama was on tape taking credit for the attacks and Dean still doesn't know if he's guilty or not??? Sorry, either he's A: Too scared to say he think's Osama is guilty, or, B: He's too stupid and really doesn't know Osama's guilty. Either of which disqualify him as good choice for President, in my book.
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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#11 prolog

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 01:35 AM

Uncle Sid, on Dec 27 2003, 04:54 AM, said:

Sure they could.
I don't doubt you could, but I doubt that all the selected jurors would be willing to be impartial in the matter.

#12 Rov Judicata

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 06:46 PM

Dean is issuing one of his infamous clarifications

Quote

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean said he wants Osama bin Laden to get the death penalty, seeking to minimize fallout from a New Hampshire newspaper story in which he was quoted as saying the terror leader's guilt should not be prejudged.

Add it to the collection.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#13 G1223

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 07:02 PM

What is this  # 674 I mi9ght have miscounted.
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#14 StarDust

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Posted 27 December 2003 - 10:58 PM

Dean is doing exactly what got the Republicans into trouble in the 90s. He's trying to appeal to the extremist Democrats on the far left, and it looks like that may get him the Democratic primaries (then maybe not). He figures he'll worry about the rest of the country later, but they are watching now. He won't get elected.

Bush has very high approval ratings and the majority are still behind him concerning the Iraq war according to all the polls. Plus, people don't like candidates that constantly put their foot in their mouth and don't seem to know what they are talking about, then need to do damage control (flip flopping while trying not to look like it).

If someone wants to beat Bush they need to look at issues that need to be addressed, not go after things Bush has done that the public agrees with. The problem there is that Bush has done a lot of relatively 'democrat' type things. One of the complaints by some Republicans is that Bush has spent too much money on what would be considered 'social' programs. The deficit is something the democrats can go after, but a big part of that has to do with tax cuts and social programs trying to get the economy going again, so that wouldn't be very popular (I disagreed with the tax cut).

They can't go after the economy anymore, not that I ever think that is valid. It's a free economy and usually has nothing to do with a President one way or another. Usually the best they can do is stay out of the way. But if you want to bring Presidents into it, it was already going down when Clinton was still in. The Enron type scandals all happened when Clinton was in, but didn't get caught until Bush, etc. The economist where all saying in 1999 that it was a bubble and we were going to crash. I remember all the discussions by so called experts. Some idiots decided the old rules didn't apply anymore. That's like saying gravity doesn't work anymore. Just Stupid. We're just lucky that there are safe guards in place to prevent another depression.

The country is in the center, Dean isn't. And he's looking more and more like a weak wacko as far as I'm concerned.



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