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Dean says Bush "most dangerous president"...

Election 2004 Howard Dean 2003

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 02:35 PM

Here's the story

Quote

From Iraq to homeland security to public health, President Bush's "reckless" habit of placing "ideology over facts" has resulted in "the most dangerous administration in my lifetime," Democrat Howard Dean charged over the past two days.

Dean was born in 1948.

I don't have any history texts handy as a reminder, but I did find a list of presidents since 1948:

Truman: Used atomic weapons, Korean war
Ike: Opposed government funding of polio vaccinations because it would be "socialized medicine". (I'm not entirely sure about that one; it may have been a different president, but I'm fairly confident it was around Eisenhower's time...)
JFK: Came very close to pushing brinkmanship too far on multiple occasions
LBJ: Something about a war....
Nixon: Various "dirty tricks" and disgracing the presidency
Reagan: Used military spending to hasted Soviet collapse; gambled with provoking the Soviet Union into starting a third land war in Europe. Won, but was extremely dangerous.
Clinton: Ineffective against al qeada.

Public health is-- for the moment-- codespeak for mad cow disease. Clearly, polio is far more dangerous than mad cow disease, and the policy of allowing the disease to go unvaccinated was far more dangerous than one imported cow getting sick.

Now, you probably disagree with one or more of these; they're more random incidents that come to mind than fleshed out reasons. But I find it astonishingly ahistorical to call Bush "the most dangerous". Even if you don't like him, nothing he's done-- or even TRIED to do-- can approach the scale of the presidents in the latter half of the twentieth century. It's not even good rhetoric, because the electorate skews towards older demographics who remember previous administrations...
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#2 Drew

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 03:26 PM

Howard Dean grows more ridiculous by the day. I hope he gets the nomination. It'll be the biggest Republican victory since Reagan beat Mondale.

Edited by Drew, 30 December 2003 - 03:26 PM.

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#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 04:14 PM

^

Is Dean, perchance, Dan Quayle's brother???
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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#4 the 'Hawk

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 04:22 PM

Um, the reason Bush is so dangerous is because he has a mandate from the American public *to* be dangerous.

See also: September 11th, 2001. They hit the USA first. The way Dean makes it sound, going into Afghanistan and taking Iraq's regime down as an example to the other regimes in the region was uncalled for. He couldn't be more wrong.

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#5 G1223

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 04:58 PM

I can see the campain sticker now. Howard Dean the Reason why somepeople shouls not marry their sister.

#6 Kevin Street

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:23 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Dec 30 2003, 12:35 PM, said:

Now, you probably disagree with one or more of these; they're more random incidents that come to mind than fleshed out reasons. But I find it astonishingly ahistorical to call Bush "the most dangerous". Even if you don't like him, nothing he's done-- or even TRIED to do-- can approach the scale of the presidents in the latter half of the twentieth century.
Just wait Rov, the Cheney/Bush team isn't done yet... :(

Seriously, a lot of Bush's mistakes are of the kind that will be paid by the next generation - the effects just won't be obvious for a few years. But in years to come, the deteriorating environment and mounting federal debt will leave no doubt that Bush was the worst president of the last hundred years or so.

Edited by Kevin Street, 30 December 2003 - 05:23 PM.

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#7 Enmar

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:33 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Dec 30 2003, 09:35 PM, said:

Now, you probably disagree with one or more of these; they're more random incidents that come to mind than fleshed out reasons. But I find it astonishingly ahistorical to call Bush "the most dangerous". Even if you don't like him, nothing he's done-- or even TRIED to do-- can approach the scale of the presidents in the latter half of the twentieth century. It's not even good rhetoric, because the electorate skews towards older demographics who remember previous administrations...

You know, Rov, perhaps things have to deteriorate to the level of one candidate calling another 'source of all evil' for the American public to stand up and silence all the fools. The ridicules rhetoric is breaking new records for as long as I can remember. But it has to show on the polls that the line has been crossed, and from here it looks like Dean is doing well.

This is, of course, an international phenomenon, but the Americans seems to be leading it. And because speaking nonsense proves so effective, politicians in other countries study those campaigns and import the concepts. It is just unbelievable, but I still remember how funny I found the 'home-made' quality of the movies Clinton first used on his campaign (very convincing... :sarcasm: ) but during the last elections I was unlucky enough to see Sharon the same way :pout:

So the world is pleading in front of the American public to show some leadership and stop that horror show. Please.

Btw, I'm not saying that you have any special copyrights on stupid politicians. This week an Israeli Knesset member that was  told he'll be prosecuted for faking his academic credits told the general prosecutor: "You are worse than Hitler!" :look:

It's just the American advisors that make this into some gentle art major politicians should master :rolleyes:
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#8 G1223

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:33 PM

Yes Kevin we could have had Al Gore and his master stroke of Kyoto which would have driven manufactures to Canada and Mexico while leaving us in a depression that started in Buddy Bill's Term of office.

Then we could have WPA so as to cover the unemplyment  which is mainly shovel and pick work (It's work but not what a EE degree having guys wants after college)

Of course Bush could have just left the same care for the national parks that Bill and crew did. (Remember the wild fires of last couple of years. They came around becasue too few workers and much neglect((So nature could creat underbrush))

The juggling act of the left which ran the conutry for nearly 40 yrs is what got us in the hole. They had the purse strings they are the ones who dug into social security. Those men would include Daschel and Gepheart,and Al Gore former Sen. from Tenn.

Bush might be remembered for fiscal damages but he will also be remembered for doing womthing about terrorists and countries that harbor them.

#9 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:39 PM

Quote

The juggling act of the left which ran the conutry for nearly 40 yrs is what got us in the hole

I think throwing stones about 4 decades is generally a bad idea if you are trying to make a point, after all, wasn't Bush senior also president for 10% of that time?

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#10 G1223

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:45 PM

Yes he was . And the President makes so many laws I .... Oh wait Congress makes the lwas the President can only Veto it. hhhmmmm So Bush did not make the laws did not run the ways and means comitee. Could only Veto the whole bill(God a line item Veto would be useful) not the parts he was not willing to sign off on.

So Bush was in th White House while in congress was a member of the minority party. So he got a lot of the things he wanted passed in his comitees. (Buy that and a $5 will get you a cup of coffe)

#11 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:47 PM

So the fact that Bill Clinton was in office is equally irrelevant because it was the Dems in controll of congress

aka, Bush junior is just as useless as all other presidents, and he might as well nto be there because Congress has sole power?

not how i remember learning how the US goverment worked. but i guess things change

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#12 Drew

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:49 PM

Kevin Street, on Dec 30 2003, 04:23 PM, said:

Seriously, a lot of Bush's mistakes are of the kind that will be paid by the next generation - the effects just won't be obvious for a few years. But in years to come, the deteriorating environment and mounting federal debt will leave no doubt that Bush was the worst president of the last hundred years or so.
I've heard that exact same thing said about Clinton, Bush the first, Reagan, Carter, . . . It's a common rhetorical tactic. We shall see.
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#13 Ilphi

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:51 PM

The most damaging thing about all the rhetoric is the boy-who-cried-wolf effect. These peope can sling mud around calling each other racists, evil, Nazis, or whatever. The problem is when a truly bad person does come along, we're all to desensitized by the language.

"That man, is a Nazi! He wants to deport all non White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestants!"
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#14 tennyson

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:51 PM

Bush, Sr.  also raised taxes, while cutting certain federal spending. Frankly, I don't see a situation except on the most extreme levels of low probablity where anything Bush has done could match the potential calmaity of the previously mentioned presidents. All-out nuclear war between two oppenents armed with thousands of nuclear weapons makes what North Korea or Iran or a terrororist could do seem like nothing and the world was frightening close to that several times, the most famous of course being the Cuban Missile Crisis. There is simply no comparison to a horrendous but local blow and the end of civilization as we know it.
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#15 Delvo

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 05:57 PM

Godeskian, on Dec 30 2003, 04:39 PM, said:

I think throwing stones about 4 decades is generally a bad idea if you are trying to make a point, after all, wasn't Bush senior also president for 10% of that time?
Yes, and he's one of those liberal Democrats he was complaining about, just like this Bush is. What does he have to do with anything?

#16 Delvo

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 06:10 PM

Enmar, on Dec 30 2003, 04:33 PM, said:

it has to show on the polls that the line has been crossed, and from here it looks like Dean is doing well.
Ya, he does this stuff because the Democrats have found that this nonsense works on their audience. The question is whether or not that segment of the population which is sufficiently simpleminded, shallow, and gullible to listen to it are also numerous to win an election. I don't think they are yet, but I believe it's not going to be the severe electoral thrashing that some people predict either.

Quote

This is, of course, an international phenomenon, but the Americans seems to be leading it... So the world is pleading in front of the American public to show some leadership and stop that horror show. Please.
Nonsense. If anything, the Americans learned it by watching Europe, from the way various parties (especially the socialist-leaning ones) in the western democratic republics go after each other, to the way the admitted socialists of the eastern countries broadcast such attacks on pretty much everybody else around them both before and after the Russian Empire's collapse, to the way they all spout off about the USA as the Great Satan of the world now (including trying to pin their own behavior over there on us).

#17 Bad Wolf

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 06:27 PM

Quote

You know, Rov, perhaps things have to deteriorate to the level of one candidate calling another 'source of all evil' for the American public to stand up and silence all the fools.

So *that's* where Tribune got the idea for its current characterization of Spirit of the Abyss as the source of all evil.....Ah, one more thing to lay at the feet of American politics...;)

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#18 Uncle Sid

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 09:59 PM

^
Oh, are they doing that now?  I'm rather glad I didn't watch the S3 finale and went cold turkey after that.  Of course, what I've already heard about Tyr is bad enough, but at least he's out of his misery.
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#19 Chipper

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:01 PM

While not agreeing with what Bush has done, I can't really say that Dean is right on this one...

the after effects will be felt later on, not now, so we'll see how well his programs in Iraq worked.

But still, I'd say Dean would make a better pres., but that's just MHO.
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#20 Bad Wolf

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 10:07 PM

Uncle Sid, on Dec 30 2003, 06:59 PM, said:

^
Oh, are they doing that now?  I'm rather glad I didn't watch the S3 finale and went cold turkey after that.  Of course, what I've already heard about Tyr is bad enough, but at least he's out of his misery.
The season three finale had some good stuff. It's season 4 that's been pure ruination.  I MISS Season 3.  That's how awful it's gotten.  Frankly Uncle Sid I wish you'd continue your fanfic.  

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