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Dean: A closet racist???

Election 2004 Howard Dean 2004

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#21 MuseZack

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 12:46 AM

The Bush people aren't planning for a blowout either.  Rove's whole strategy revolves around getting out the Republican base, which is a recognition that as the 2000 and 2002 elections demonstrated, it's still pretty much a 50-50 country.  And as one Republican strategist pointed out, the Democratic base is currently so anti-Bush that a reasonably competent candidate can at least get up to 46 percent.  But I think Dean will have a lot harder time reaching past that base in the general than an Edwards, a Kerry, or a Clark.  (Gephardt seems like a decent guy but too much of a career political hack, while Lieberman is hated by too much of his own party, and would probably inspire a strong Green Party candidacy in protest of him.)
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#22 Delvo

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 12:56 AM

Of all the strange things to attack Dean on (getting back to the original topic)... Al seems to have become too single-minded to realize that the race card isn't particularly effective anymore, largely due to overuse. I guess that sort of thing is how he's become so marginal lately.

#23 Aric

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 03:38 AM

I'm not terribly familiar with the Democratic party contenders, or US politics beyond the basics (Iowa caucus?), but having heard a lot about Dean, I caught an article describing some of his campaign success, and also discussed some of his experiences as Governor.  From what I read, although his state is small and doesn't have anywhere near the type of problems big states would have, he was nothing short of an outstanding Governor.  Aside from his tendency to speak somewhat recklessly or foolishly, he seems to be a most impressive candidate (though I'll admit to only seeing a couple of minutes of footage of him), I'm at a loss to understand why the Democrats aren't rallying around him.  From my limited knowledge of the field, if I were an American, I'd be all for Dean.  I'm not particularly anti-Bush, nothing like those angry foreigners who demonstrated against him, but after watching that piece on 60 Minutes, I'm fully convinced Bush has surrounded himself with the wrong people, and am very hopeful that a new President is elected this year.  So I know I'll be cheering for Dean on the sidelines.

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#24 GiGi

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 06:31 AM

Delvo, on Jan 12 2004, 09:56 PM, said:

Of all the strange things to attack Dean on (getting back to the original topic)... Al seems to have become too single-minded to realize that the race card isn't particularly effective anymore, largely due to overuse. I guess that sort of thing is how he's become so marginal lately.
I wholeheartedly agree!
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#25 Uncle Sid

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 07:34 AM

Quote

And as one Republican strategist pointed out, the Democratic base is currently so anti-Bush that a reasonably competent candidate can at least get up to 46 percent. But I think Dean will have a lot harder time reaching past that base in the general than an Edwards, a Kerry, or a Clark.

Yeah, the anti-Bush will probably galvanize an otherwise uncertain Democratic pool of voters, but they really remind me of Ric Lazio in the NY Senate race against Hillary.  Basically, he was pretty much planning on getting elected because he wasn't Hillary.  It didn't work.  

The war is a bit of an issue, but it hasn't gone on long enough to have really shaken up the demographics that much and the economy isn't tanking anymore.  If the economy improves markedly by November, the Dems won't have any decent cards to play particularly because I don't think Bush, or rather Rove, has forgotten how Papa Bush got defeated because of the economy, even with high wartime ratings.  Don't look for them to fall for that twice.  

As for Dean, I don't know how he's going to pan out, but he's certainly lost some momentum by saying some dumb stuff.  At this point, though, unless someone like Edwards or Clark pulls from behind, Dean's the candidate.  The problem for him is that while he's trying to pull a Bill Clinton and come out of almost nowhere, Dean's both a northerner and not an honorary black man.  Getting those Southern states can be tough if you are a Democrat and not from the South.  He's also a little bit too left for a lot of them down there.  

My prediction right now, then, mostly mirrors the polls.  Bush gets 49-51% of the vote to win unless he screws up or the economy seriously tanks.  I'm uncertain of what the effect of a second successful terrorist attack would be, but I think that people still don't trust Democrats to protect the country, and Dean's opposition to the war could seriously backfire on him in that situation.  Nothing like a good terrorist scare to break up a party base.
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#26 Kevin Street

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 08:02 AM

Now, I sure don't want to see any more terrorist attacks - not by any means - but in the spirit of asking hypothetical questions, why would Americans connect a new terrorist atrocity to the war in Iraq? The two events aren't connected in any direct way, and imo, any connection that could be indirectly found would be negative for Republicans - ie: the new attack could be seen as "blowback" from the Iraq war much as 9/11 was blowback from CIA and ISI support of Islamic Fundamentalist groups in the 80s and 90s.
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#27 G1223

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 09:19 AM

Uncle Sid, on Jan 13 2004, 12:34 PM, said:

but I think that people still don't trust Democrats to protect the country, and Dean's opposition to the war could seriously backfire on him in that situation.
Bingo. The major problemI have had of the Democrates this year has been the statement" I would have donoe it differently." and when asked to explain we get  I would have waited to get Russia and France on board. Which was not going to happen (Also meaning that someone has no clue about what to do) Or the request brings the answer "Just differently" which comes across to me as the LBJ actions of micromanaging the war.

Dean comes across as someone who will FUBAR this.

#28 Cardie

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 09:26 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Jan 13 2004, 12:33 AM, said:

If the economy is bad in November-- and, frankly, I have no idea what it's going to do-- Dean will definitely have a plank, although he'll need a candidate who can help win the south and/or has foreign policy experience. (Clark is the natural choice, but there's bad blood there... Edwards?).
When I watched the Des Moines Register debate and studied the interactions between Edwards and Dean, I got the feeling that Edwards, while seriously contending for the nomination, was running for Dean's VP as a back-up plan.  The more I see Edwards and read his proposals, the closer I am to voting for him. He seems to have the least baggage of any of the current candidates and does not put his foot in his mouth.  Although I'm sure if he became a serious contender, some dirt would be dug up quite quickly.

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#29 aphrael

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 09:35 AM

According to the 2000 US census 96.8% of the population is white, so what is Sharpton talking about?  What is Dean suppose to import minorites in.


:elf:

#30 Rhea

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 10:43 AM

MuseZack, on Jan 12 2004, 10:11 PM, said:

Out of all the candidates, Kerry would probably make the best president, based on experience and accomplishments and temperment.
Boy, do I agree. After years of watching him in hearings, he's one of the Senators who impresses me most, both in terms of education, brains, ideals and the ability to both articulate them and act on them. He has enormous common sense. He refuses to give easy answers to complex questions.

Well, there you go. He can't possibly be President, then. He's overqualified for the job.  :devil:
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#31 MuseZack

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Posted 13 January 2004 - 11:47 PM

One more point on Sharpton:  this really isn't about Dean at all, but rather Sharpton's long-running ambitions to become an unofficial spokesperson/leader of the African American community in the way that Jesse Jackson was during the 1980s and much of the 1990s.  Sharpton was supposedly really pissed at Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. for endorsing Dean a few months back, feeling that it was the Jackson family trying to undermine his leadership bid/Presidential run.  Sharpton was actually fairly civil to Dean until the Jackson endorsement, and only afterward did he start with the really nasty attacks.  So chalk this up less to any real animus toward Dean and more as another chapter in the long-running Jackson-Sharpton feud.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3339568/

http://www.newyorkme.../2004race/5570/

http://www.villagevo...0349/coates.php
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin



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