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Another set of primaries is upon us...

Election 2004 Primaries Democrats

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#21 Nick

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:06 PM

Looks like Oklahoma's gunna come down to the wire, CNN's reporting a "virtual 3 way tie"* between Edwards, Kerry & Clark.

[edit: *based on exit polls, that is--precincts aren't reporting yet]

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 03 February 2004 - 08:08 PM.


#22 Nick

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 08:23 PM

Dean's delivering his speech now, but he said a line I really like:

" . . . and the President's the worst.  He's promised $1 trillion in tax cuts and a trip to Mars.  Well, maybe we should give him the trip to Mars . . . "

:lol:

-Nick

#23 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:02 PM

MuseZack, on Feb 3 2004, 05:56 PM, said:

But can you feel the Joe-mentum?
Yes, it's right here
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#24 Nick

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:05 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Feb 3 2004, 09:00 PM, said:

MuseZack, on Feb 3 2004, 05:56 PM, said:

But can you feel the Joe-mentum?
Yes, it's right here
LMAO! :lol:

-Nick

#25 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:09 PM

Nick, on Feb 3 2004, 06:03 PM, said:

Rov! Why didn't you just change your party affiliation for the primaries!? .....
... oops, missed this before.

I'd rather not go through the indignity of formally affiliating myself with either party. I'd probably be physically ill. ;).

Plus, by the time it became apparent that my guy had a chance, it was too late to reregister anyway. Ah well.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#26 Nick

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:18 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Feb 3 2004, 09:07 PM, said:

... oops, missed this before.

I'd rather not go through the indignity of formally affiliating myself with either party. I'd probably be physically ill. ;).

Plus, by the time it became apparent that my guy had a chance, it was too late to reregister anyway. Ah well.
I never understood why people who live in closed-primary states would ever register something other than Democrat or Republican.  It shuts you out from virtually all of the primaries! (Oh, and don't pull the old "well if there's only one party fielding candidates, then they'll let me vote in the primaries!", because there are always wacky write-ins running who manage to keep the primaries closed.)

I'm registered back in Pensacola, being a fulltime student here in Orlando, and there are many local elections that are determined solely by the primaries.  And your party affiliation has no bearing on who you are actually supposed to vote for (in general elections)--a Dem can vote Rep all he/she wants and vice versa.  And you can change your affiliation on a whim.  The worst that can possibly happen to you registering for one of the mainstream parties is you might get some of their fliers in the mail.

I'm not sure if you've worked on campaigns, Rov, but the candidates (especially local ones) get a list of all the registered voters, their affiliation, and their vote scores (a series of numbers that tell how often you vote in local stuff, primaries, national stuff, etc.) no one can find out who you vote for, but it is public information if you vote, their addresses, phone numbers, etc.  And when they go door-to-door or call or otherwise do their campaigning--many don't waste their time with registered independants unless it's convenient . . . and they don't waste their time with people who have 0% vote scores in primaries and local elections.

If the *disgrace* of appearing on some 500 page roster some campaign aid prints out with the name of a major party next to your own name is too much for you to actually be able to vote in primaries and hear something directly from campaigning candidates . . . well, that's your call.  Stupid and naive . . . but your call. ;)

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 03 February 2004 - 09:20 PM.


#27 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:25 PM

^

If I had been able to register in time to vote for Edwards, I may have done it anyway. I'm aware of the campaign mechanics, and how much primary voters matter.

However, in general, I don't like to align my loyalties to a certain group, even if that loyalty is only on paper. Maybe in 2008, if a candidate motivates me, I will... but I'd rather just end the discrimination against independents.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#28 GiGi

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:36 PM

So Rov, I really don't know who to vote for,  I really like Edwards, but perhaps you can give me reasons why to choose him in the primary.  In other words why you like him.

You may not be able to vote for him, but I am giving you a chance to win another vote for him!  :)
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#29 Nick

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 09:52 PM

BTW, Now that Lieberman's out, what happens to the delegates from candidates that drop out?

-Nick

#30 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 10:00 PM

GiGi, on Feb 3 2004, 07:34 PM, said:

So Rov, I really don't know who to vote for,  I really like Edwards, but perhaps you can give me reasons why to choose him in the primary.  In other words why you like him.

You may not be able to vote for him, but I am giving you a chance to win another vote for him!  :)
First: Electability. Consider this: In this forum alone, you see that Cardie and myself can support the same guy. Considering how far apart we are politically, that demonstrates a wide base of appeal pretty well.

Second: Many people are scared off of college because of sticker shock and simple fear. Edwards supports one free year for everybody, which lets people find out whether it's for them, without breaking themselves financially. Beyond that, good students can seek financial aid. I believe this will also have an impact similar to the GI Bill, expanding the college system by increased demand.

Edwards is also the only candidate (that I'm aware of) who's seriously talked about increasing teachers salaries and providing more scholarships to future teachers. This is something desperately needed; the scholarships are too late to help me, but they would be tremendously helpful.

Third: Edwards is the only candidate who's said anything serious about poverty, which is a massive problem that's being widely ignored by the current administration.

Examples:

Quote

Edwards' American Dream Tax Credit will offer a matching tax credit of up to $5,000 to help those who need it to cover a down payment on a first home. This credit will give millions of Americans their first chance to own a home.

Quote

To help working Americans invest in American business, Edwards will cut capital gains taxes for 95% of Americans. For these taxpayers, he will create a $1,000 exclusion from capital gains taxes, as well as $500 dividend exclusion. He will also lower the long-term capital gains rate for middle-class families. These steps will simplify tax filing and eliminate two tax forms for millions of Americans.

Quote

Edwards will give Americans who have the most trouble saving today a chance to save through matching savings accounts.
He will match $1 in private savings with as much as a $1 refundable tax credit for savings, up to a limit of $1,000 per couple, for Americans with incomes up to $50,000. A working family that saves and receives the maximum under this plan every year from age 25 to retirement will have a nest egg of $200,000, on top of other savings.

Examples of trying to make government more efficient:

Quote

Reinstate real budget caps and permanently restore pay- as-you-go budget enforcement rules.

Use attrition to reduce the number of government employees and contractors, excluding defense and homeland security, by 10 percent over 10 years.

Close government agencies that have outlived their usefulness, such as the Office of Thrift Supervision.

Open more government procurement to competitive bidding.

What are Edwards' weaknesses?

-- Experience. He hasn't been a senator very long. He'll need somebody more grizzled.
-- Foreign policy. He's weak there, and has been fuzzy over his campaign. If he wins, he'll need to have a runningmate with experience in that area.
-- No military experience. Bush's military record is a huge vulnerability, and a veteran could do so nicely.
-- Fiscal responsibility. I'm counting on a GOP congress to keep his more 'ambitious' spending programs in check. Anyway, no matter what he can get through, it can't be worse than Bush, and at least his programs MIGHT accomplish something.

Hey, it's almost like John Kerry would be a good runningmate... :angel: <Actually, a dream ticket would be McCain/Edwards, and would also win easily. But I have to live in reality...>

This is incomplete, but you get the gist. I'd highly advocate checking out his webpage: http://www.johnedwards2004.com/

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 03 February 2004 - 10:00 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#31 GiGi

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 10:11 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Feb 3 2004, 06:58 PM, said:

Hey, it's almost like John Kerry would be a good runningmate... :angel: <Actually, a dream ticket would be McCain/Edwards, and would also win easily. But I have to live in reality...>
^ I agree, I would like that ticket a lot.

Thank you Rov, he has my vote.  I am a gut instinct kind of person.  I watched the very first Democratic Debate when all of the candidates were a blur.  My impression I went away with is that I really liked two candidates, one was John Edwards, the other Carol Moseley Braun.  I believe when Carol withdrew she asked her supporters to vote for Edwards.  So it is also nice to have logically sound reasons to vote for Edwards in addition to the instinctual one.

Interestingly enough I did not get a good impression from Dean that first debate and even with the momentum he had when he was front runner I was not on board (despite pressure from some friends who worked on his campaign).

I do like Edwards, a lot actually!!!
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#32 G1223

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 10:16 PM

Edwards hits me like a guy who tells you about buying real estate for no money down then selling it and keeping boatloads of cash.

#33 Banapis

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 11:06 PM

RPITA, on Feb 3 2004, 09:43 PM, said:

Thank you, Banapis! That's the best laugh and mental image I've had in a while!
APOTS, Anna. :D

Banapis

#34 MuseZack

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Posted 03 February 2004 - 11:55 PM

GiGi, on Feb 4 2004, 03:09 AM, said:

Javert Rovinski, on Feb 3 2004, 06:58 PM, said:

Hey, it's almost like John Kerry would be a good runningmate... :angel: <Actually, a dream ticket would be McCain/Edwards, and would also win easily. But I have to live in reality...>
^ I agree, I would like that ticket a lot.

Thank you Rov, he has my vote.  I am a gut instinct kind of person.  I watched the very first Democratic Debate when all of the candidates were a blur.  My impression I went away with is that I really liked two candidates, one was John Edwards, the other Carol Moseley Braun.  I believe when Carol withdrew she asked her supporters to vote for Edwards.  So it is also nice to have logically sound reasons to vote for Edwards in addition to the instinctual one.

Interestingly enough I did not get a good impression from Dean that first debate and even with the momentum he had when he was front runner I was not on board (despite pressure from some friends who worked on his campaign).

I do like Edwards, a lot actually!!!
Honestly, I'm still torn on who to support.   Edwards, Kerry, and Clark are all strong candidates with a lot to recommend them, and I'd be happy to support any one of them in the general.   Dean scares the crap out of me, not so much for the reported reasons (his tenure as Vermont governor was actually pretty unobjectionable and centrist), as for the fact that he's a polarizing figure and would do poorly in the general election.

I won't be sorry to see Lieberman go, though.  Although he's not the Republican in disguise that a lot of Democrats believe him to be, his scolding moralism, relentless attacks on fellow Democrats, and uselessness as a V.P. candidate in 2000 don't exactly make him Presidential material.
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We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
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#35 Rhea

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 01:31 PM

I'm still hoping for Kerry/Edwards.

I like Edwards, but his lack of experience goes against him in my book.

OTOH, Vice President Edwards could probably get elected handily if President Kerry didn't do anything too dumb or distasteful while President (thus making me a happy woman, since I like them both :p :p).
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#36 FlatlandDan

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 11:02 PM

Slightly OT, but the first couple of times I read the title of this thread I got "Another set of primates is upon us..."

It honstly was a high point in my day.


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My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
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#37 Norville

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Posted 04 February 2004 - 11:11 PM

Quote

Slightly OT, but the first couple of times I read the title of this thread I got "Another set of primates is upon us..."

At least it wasn't "Another set of mammaries", since we already have a thread about half of one set... ;)
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Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#38 Rhea

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Posted 05 February 2004 - 03:51 PM

As of today's poll, the Michigan statistics were: Kerry - 47 percent, Dean - 10 percent, Edwards - 8 percent, Clark - 4 percent, Sharpton - 2 percent and Ohio  Kucinich  with 1 percent. Twenty-three percent of likely voters were undecided.

And LOL at Dan and Norville!  :p  :D

Edited by Rhea, 05 February 2004 - 03:51 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



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