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John Kerry "Second Black President"?

Election 2004 John Kerry Democrat Second Black President

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#1 Drew

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:24 AM

Buried in the middle of This AP Story about Super Tuesday results is the strangest soundbite of the day.

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"President Clinton was often known as the first black president. I wouldn't be upset if I could earn the right to be the second," [Kerry] told the American Urban Radio Network.

I'm just going to repeat what a friend of mine wrote to me because it echoes my own thoughts so closely.

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Bill Clinton was referred to by some prominent black leader (can't remember who at the moment) as "America's first black president" because of his humble beginnings and I guess his ability to connect with the black community. Of course, conservatives (and anyone with a sense of irony) howled with laughter.

But John Kerry? JOHN KERRY? John Kerry wants to be a "black president"? What in John Kerry's background could POSSIBLY make him think he deserves to be known as a "black president"? If George H. W. Bush could have been labelled the epitome of a non-black president, John Kerry could only be second behind him.

And this is the larger issue that I'm driving at... How "in touch" with the American people can this man really claim to be? That is what they tarred Bush Sr. with, that he was out of touch. And they're trying to do the same with Dubya. But isn't this as big a case of the pot calling the kettle black as there has been in a long time?

In fact, I would propose that if anything, Kerry is MORE out of touch with the American mainstream than Dubya. Let's face it: they are both fabulously wealthy. They both went to Yale. But at least Dubya has spent the majority of his adult life in the marketplace, running successful businesses; Kerry has spent the majority of his life in government, spending other people's money.

Edited by Drew, 03 March 2004 - 11:24 AM.

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#2 MuseZack

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:41 AM

[quote name='Drew' date='Mar 3 2004, 04:22 PM'] They both went to Yale. But at least Dubya has spent the majority of his adult life in the marketplace, running successful businesses; Kerry has spent the majority of his life in government, spending other people's money.[/QUOTE] [/quote]
Running successful businesses?  Oh, please.  Bush's entire business history consists of walking into sweetheart deals based on his family name and running businesses into the ground before getting bailed out by his father's rich friends.  

[url="http://www.sptimes.com/News/102900/Business/Influence_and_bailout.shtml"]http://www.sptimes.com/News/102900/Busines...d_bailout.shtml[/url]

[url="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,754652,00.html"]http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/st...,754652,00.html[/url]

On the bright side, at least he isn't trading on his family name to do deals with China's ruling families and consort with hookers-- unlike his brother, Neil.

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35297-2003Dec27?language=printer"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer[/url]


P.S.  The "first black president" thing came from a  semi-facetious comment from author Toni Morrison.
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#3 gaius claudius

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 11:43 AM

Drew, on Mar 3 2004, 04:22 PM, said:

In fact, I would propose that if anything, Kerry is MORE out of touch with the American mainstream than Dubya. Let's face it: they are both fabulously wealthy. They both went to Yale. But at least Dubya has spent the majority of his adult life in the marketplace, running successful businesses; Kerry has spent the majority of his life in government, spending other people's money
Keep in mind I haven't actually picked a canidate yet...but on this particular arguement ...I'm not sure if owing a failed oil company and part of a baseball franchise puts one "in touch" with the common man...no offense to the President..but Bush is a rich white guy...who's spent his life surrounded by other rich white guys...as is Kerry...but at the very least he can at least point to his having fought on  the ground (or in the water per se) in Nam and protesting with other returned servicemen when he got back...


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#4 prolog

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 12:09 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 3 2004, 04:39 PM, said:

Running successful businesses?  Oh, please.  Bush's entire business history consists of walking into sweetheart deals based on his family name and running businesses into the ground before getting bailed out by his father's rich friends.
Let me second this: Bush pretty much bankrupted his oil company because he couldn't find oil in Texas.

#5 Drew

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 12:31 PM

prolog, on Mar 3 2004, 11:07 AM, said:

MuseZack, on Mar 3 2004, 04:39 PM, said:

Running successful businesses? Oh, please. Bush's entire business history consists of walking into sweetheart deals based on his family name and running businesses into the ground before getting bailed out by his father's rich friends.
Let me second this: Bush pretty much bankrupted his oil company because he couldn't find oil in Texas.
Why thank you. You've convinced me that John Kerry is quite in touch with the American people and can certainly relate to the African-American experience.  :sarcasm:

Edited by Drew, 03 March 2004 - 12:32 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#6 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 12:46 PM

Can I just say how OFFENSIVE it is to me that Clinton, Kerry or anyone other than someone  who is black would be referred to (let alone refer to themselves as) a "black president".  That's just *shudder*........ye gods I don't even have the words.  It's worse than racist.  :barf:
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#7 gaius claudius

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 12:55 PM

Drew, on Mar 3 2004, 05:29 PM, said:

prolog, on Mar 3 2004, 11:07 AM, said:

MuseZack, on Mar 3 2004, 04:39 PM, said:

Running successful businesses? Oh, please. Bush's entire business history consists of walking into sweetheart deals based on his family name and running businesses into the ground before getting bailed out by his father's rich friends.
Let me second this: Bush pretty much bankrupted his oil company because he couldn't find oil in Texas.
Why thank you. You've convinced me that John Kerry is quite in touch with the American people and can certainly relate to the African-American experience.  :sarcasm:
I thought the supposition of your original post  was ..i.e.  that by virtue of their past experiences..GWB was more in touch with the common man (black or white) then Kerry was ..it seems through example..that's not exactly the case... :(

Una said...

Quote

Can I just say how OFFENSIVE it is to me that Clinton, Kerry or anyone other than someone who is black would be referred to (let alone refer to themselves as) a "black president". That's just *shudder*........ye gods I don't even have the words. It's worse than racist

Have to admit I disagree..

1. Clinton never referred to himself this way..Toni Morrison (black) Jesse JAckson (black) and a whole lot of black journalists and people on the street did   :rolleyes:

2. I myself am black...and I certainly don't find it rascist (also, as far as i know, the only thing I find worst then racist...is genocide and this ain't it)..misguided and misunderstood..probably..in trying to express Clinton's almost unilateral support from the African American community and Kerry's aspiration to match it

gc   :devil:
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#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:00 PM

I never said that Clinton referred to himself as a black president.  (read carefully please).  And guess what?  I still think it's racist and I'm entitled to that opinion (you being black notwithstanding).  I mean, Clarence Thomas is black too and you won't find I'm in much agreement with him on race issues either.  :)
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#9 gaius claudius

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:05 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 3 2004, 05:58 PM, said:

I never said that Clinton referred to himself as a black president.  (read carefully please).  And guess what?  I still think it's racist and I'm entitled to that opinion (you being black notwithstanding).  I mean, Clarence Thomas is black too and you won't find I'm in much agreement with him on race issues either.  :)
I never said you weren't entitled to the opinion (read carefully too please)..all I did was say I diasagree, and why i disagreed...that kind of the point of an opinion board aint't it.. :D

I'm guess I'm just not seeing ..why...you consider it racist..for what actual reason..I guess that's what I was actually trying to get at, sorry if I did it poorly..



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#10 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:07 PM

^

Why is it racist though? If races doesn't matter, then shouldn't calling somebody 'white' or 'black' be largely meaningless? And is it equally racist when black politicians such as Powell and Rice are referred to as 'white'? And I'd argue it's relatively minor when we have things like this going on in Congress.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 03 March 2004 - 01:08 PM.

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#11 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:09 PM

Why is it racist?

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because of his humble beginnings
  The assumption that being black necessarily equates to humble beginnings.  

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#12 Drew

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:22 PM

Consider what Kerry's comment says about how he sees himself. What does Kerry mean by "black"?
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#13 GiGi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:34 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 3 2004, 10:07 AM, said:

Why is it racist?

Quote

because of his humble beginnings
  The assumption that being black necessarily equates to humble beginnings.  

Lil
racist

adj 1: based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 2: discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion [syn: antiblack, anti-Semitic, anti-Semite(a)] n : a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others [syn: racialist] (source Dictionary.com)


Lil, how is this racist?  Sometimes I think we need another word than that.  True racism is intolerance, and the belief that one's own race is superior to all of the other "inferior" races.

While this remark is kind of stupid, I am not seeing how it falls under the definition of "racist"
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#14 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:38 PM

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a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others

And you don't think that someone that thinks that being born black automatically means they had humble beginnings fits the above definition?   :wacko:

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#15 GiGi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:49 PM

No, I don't.  That is a cultural assumption that is based on ignorance, but it just doesn't equal racism to me as I understand the word.

I think again this is a case of semantics.  A lot of black folk saw Clinton as "their President" because he wasn't just a rich white man who never knew the struggle of the poor classes in America, he was from the poor class.  Somehow this has been translated to humble and somehow humble is now equaling "black."  I don't think that is how this started, so I am not going to make a judgement based on how the media is twisting words.

Now, Kerry is saying that he wants earn the right to be the second "black President" as way to reach out to a class of voters that aren't on the same playing field as he is.  I still don't call it racism, I call it politics as usual.   :rolleyes:

dang typos!

Edited by GiGi, 03 March 2004 - 01:52 PM.

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#16 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:56 PM

GiGi, on Mar 3 2004, 10:47 AM, said:

No, I don't.  That is a cultural assumption that is based on ignorance, but it just doesn't equal racism to me as I understand the word.
But GiGi, it fits PRECISELY the definition YOU posted!!!!!!

Cultural assumptions based on ignorance ARE often racist.  I mean it's like assuming that all Mexicans eat refried beans and wear serapes.  Another cultural assumption based on ignorance!  RACIST.

I'm rather flabbergasted.

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#17 GiGi

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 02:12 PM

No, Lil, you are describing cultural assumptions, like all Gypsies ride in Gypsy carts, or all Scots wear kilts.  These assumptions can lead to racism, but are not racist themselves.

I can mistakenly assume that all Chinese wear Mao hats without thinking that my race is superior to them.  It is a difference of degree also.  To me racism means, to use an example, that my race is on an elevated platform and all others are inferior and therefore subject to be beneath me and others of my race.  This thinking makes it okay for some races to use other races as slaves or to practice genocide on.  

I sometimes think the word "racist" is tossed around too casually here in OT.  That is why I bring it up, the word racism to me implies more than our cultural assumptions, it implies a superior attitude that may or may not accompany the assumptions. A lot of times the two go hand and hand, but I personally think someone can mistakenly make assumptions based on ignorance without going to the  more extreme step of being a racist.

Is this just me, what do others here think about this?
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#18 HubcapDave

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 02:23 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 3 2004, 11:05 AM, said:

^

Why is it racist though? If races doesn't matter, then shouldn't calling somebody 'white' or 'black' be largely meaningless? And is it equally racist when black politicians such as Powell and Rice are referred to as 'white'? And I'd argue it's relatively minor when we have things like this going on in Congress.
Read the article you referenced, Rov.

:eek4:

Sounds like this person and reality rarely meet, let alone get close to each other!

#19 G1223

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:05 PM

I am still trying to figure out how he has this black experince. He's married to one of the richest women in the north east $500 Million plus more off shore and unreported. ( Never hurts to have access to the Heinz fortune)

#20 Bad Wolf

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:09 PM

GiGi I disagree (in case you hadn't noticed;;))  There are different degrees of racism.  Not all racists are card carrying members of the KKK for example.   And ignorance is just as much a part of it as anything  else.

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