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Post Office Commemorative Stamps Islamic fear mongering Government agencies

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#1 Rhea

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 06:14 PM

The post office has been issuing a series of stamps commemorating  religious holidays:

http://www.usps.com/...ic/sr02_052.htm

"The U.S. Postal Service is pleased to announce that the Eid postage stamp will be re-issued on Oct. 10, 2002, at the current First-Class rate of 37 cents.

A 34-cent Eid stamp was first issued on Sept. 1, 2001, at the annual Islamic Society of North America's convention in Des Plaines, Ill. The new version will be available beginning Oct. 10 at Washington, D.C. post offices and at post offices across the country starting the following day."


The first issue of this stamp was pre-9/11, and was issued along with Hanukkah and Kwanzaa stamps, which were re-issued at the same time.

My mother was appalled to find the following in her mailbox (from http://www.jewishjou...x.php?view=3249 ):

"Dear Fellow Patriotic Americans,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military Barracks in Saudi Arabia,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa,

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE.

REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/01.

REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks.


Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp. Did the Post Office offer a US stamp with the Japanese "Rising Sun" in January of 1942?

They actually began printing the stamp in 2001 before the September 11 Islamic attacks, and offered them for sale last year because they were more fearful of "offending Muslims" than they were of insulting all the memories of Americans dead at the hands of Muslims. "


Here's another link:

http://www.baptistst...ages/stamp.html

The person who forwarded this crap to my mother is a Baptist minister.  All I can say is, "way to practice Christianity."  :sarcasm:  :crazy:

This country has an enormous Muslim population. These people are not terrorists, they're not foreigners, they're *Americans.*  There's no reason for us to identify their religion with terrorism any more than I would identify all Christians with the right-wing fundamentalists who think snake-handling is a great way to celebrate God.

I would hate to think that either of these people (Jewish or Christian) are representative of the general public. And I'm appalled to see that this crap is still being circulated even AFTER the stamps have been re-issued.

If I had seen this before the re-issue I would have sent the post office a letter of support and done the same for my Senator and congresswoman.

In fact, I may still do it.

Edited by Rhea, 26 February 2003 - 06:23 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#2 the 'Hawk

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 07:24 PM

Rhea, on Feb 26 2003, 10:16 AM, said:

This country has an enormous Muslim population. These people are not terrorists, they're not foreigners, they're *Americans.*  There's no reason for us to identify their religion with terrorism any more than I would identify all Christians with the right-wing fundamentalists who think snake-handling is a great way to celebrate God.
I have to agree with you here. Such hate-mongering against another religion is so not in line with Christian principles.

I suppose he's within his First Amendment rights to express such sentiments --and since he's not really advocating any action, simply a blatant misinterpretation of facts, I doubt you'd get much accomplished by trying to "fix" his problem (though such people usually motivate me to eloquent acts of mayhem the likes of which are the very terrors of the earth).

The sad part is, though, these are the types of people who personify Christianity --and more importantly, the United States-- to the rest of the world. I got in trouble with LoP not too long ago because he interpreted me as blanketing all Christians in with the Christian uber-right. That was my mistake, one I corrected, but you know, it's so damn hard NOT to make that mistake sometimes.

The voices of tolerance don't play well on CNN. "Voices of dissent" --especially if they threaten acts that make headlines, film at eleven-- do.

And so long as there is as considerable a minority of hardcore idiocy in the human gene pool as there is, you'll still be able to twist any interpretation of any event you'd like --post office stamps or not-- to any end you so choose --Christian or not.

I honestly have to wonder if there aren't food drives or charities this minister could better spend his time organizing instead.

Sending around anti-Muslim sentiments isn't Christian. It's bullying.

And honestly? How insecure IS this guy if he resorts to that sort of tactic? It says more to me about him for printing this up and sending this around than it does about the people he's discriminating so blatantly against.

I just hope you and I aren't the only ones who feel this way. And if I said anything offensive to anyone --Christian or otherwise-- I'm not looking for an argument, just offering my opinion.

:cool:

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#3 Shalamar

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 07:31 PM

Oh, Lady Bright, what terrible bigotry!
The three most important R's
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#4 Jid

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 07:50 PM

the'Hawk, on Feb 26 2003, 10:26 AM, said:

The sad part is, though, these are the types of people who personify Christianity --and more importantly, the United States-- to the rest of the world. I got in trouble with LoP not too long ago because he interpreted me as blanketing all Christians in with the Christian uber-right. That was my mistake, one I corrected, but you know, it's so damn hard NOT to make that mistake sometimes.

The voices of tolerance don't play well on CNN. "Voices of dissent" --especially if they threaten acts that make headlines, film at eleven-- do.

<Snip!>

And honestly? How insecure IS this guy if he resorts to that sort of tactic? It says more to me about him for printing this up and sending this around than it does about the people he's discriminating so blatantly against.
Ah yes, the sad dilemma that almost any sizeable group of people face: the loud-generally obnoxious-and-completely-unrepresentative-of-the-majority fringe that gets the most attention, simply because they make the most shrill noise, and because the sensationalist mentality I feel often permeates the news makes a habit exploiting the fringe's willingness to scream to anyone who's listening.  

What this minister said is terrible, though sadly, not uncommon to hear, simply because the rest of us don't have the time to make the proper rebuttals, and make them in a way that will get them onto the same stream of distribution as the more hate-filled things.

And you're right, Hawk, this does say more about him than the people he's been attacking.  He's a poor representative for a much greater thing than his actions would imply.
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#5 Ilisidi

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 08:01 PM

Well, that's the good ol US of A.  Land of the free and home to the incredibly ignorant and despicable likes of people you wish just never existed.  Defeats the whole purpose of liberty and freedom for all, huh?

:angry:
found this tidbit in the note section!  

Words of Zack RE Tyr: This is just one ex-writer speaking completely non-canonically, but in my mind the most fascinating thing about Tyr was that despite his breeding and socialization to be treacherous, opportunistic, and selfish, it was pretty clear that underneath it all, another aspect of Tyr's personality was to be gentle, loyal, and altruistic. We saw this most clearly in "Distant Drum," where with his memory gone Tyr's default mode was to protect the weak and risk his life for kludges, but it also surfaced in "Its Hour" with Tyr's obvious pride in and protectiveness toward Harper, and then in "All Too Human" (the title says it all), where Tyr is confused and enraged by his own compassion toward Harper. In my own mind at least, Tyr's growth as a character was ultimately to try and merge what was best about the Nietzscheans (energy, intelligence, never say die attitude) with what was best about humanity (empathy, altruism, connectedness with others.)As always, YMMV.

How I remember those days....

#6 rodglas

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 08:02 PM

As a believing, faithful, even fundementalist (not in the way your probably thinking) Christian, I can tell you that this kind of promotion of hatred is not in line with Biblical teaching.

Jesus told us to love on another, and to show love even to non-believers.  My faith teaches me (and there is no equivocation about this) that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.  It does not teach anyone to promote hatred, or mistrust of other groups or religions.

Frankly I'm not surprised that this was sent by a baptist minister, probably a southren baptist who are about the only major US denomination publically in support of a war against Iraq.

It is these kind of fanatic fundementalists that are giving Christianity a bad name.

Rod.
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#7 Lover of Purple

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 08:24 PM

rodglas, on Feb 26 2003, 09:04 AM, said:

As a believing, faithful, even fundementalist (not in the way your probably thinking) Christian, I can tell you that this kind of promotion of hatred is not in line with Biblical teaching.

Jesus told us to love on another, and to show love even to non-believers.  My faith teaches me (and there is no equivocation about this) that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.  It does not teach anyone to promote hatred, or mistrust of other groups or religions.

Frankly I'm not surprised that this was sent by a baptist minister, probably a southren baptist who are about the only major US denomination publically in support of a war against Iraq.

It is these kind of fanatic fundementalists that are giving Christianity a bad name.

Rod.
Actually, most baptists will back a decision the president makes becasue he is our president, not because they support war. How do I know? I am a baptist and talk with many, many others in regard to the potential war. We don't want war, heck no one really does, but we can see where the administration is coming from. Of course not everyone I talk to agree either...kind of like life ;)

Now, as far as the topic here, the so called "minister" IS intitled to his opinion I guess but he needs to put a disclaimer in. Kind of like :The views expressed by my narrow-minded ideals are not those of mainstream Christians.

It's people like this that cause the rest major problems.

As a matter of fact, my pastor did a sermon two weeks ago on NOT hating muslims because of 9/11!

And Hawk: your post has nothing offensive in it. I found it very insightfull and well thought out. Great job!!

And I want to thank everyone for keeping this very civil.

#8 Rhea

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 09:09 PM

the'Hawk, on Feb 26 2003, 08:26 AM, said:

I suppose he's within his First Amendment rights to express such sentiments --and since he's not really advocating any action, simply a blatant misinterpretation of facts, I doubt you'd get much accomplished by trying to "fix" his problem (though such people usually motivate me to eloquent acts of mayhem the likes of which are the very terrors of the earth).
Actually, the e-mail my mom received quoted the article and added a plea to write the post office, the government and anyone else who would listen to get the post office to stop issuing the stamp. Bleach! :(  :angry:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#9 Rhys

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 09:12 PM

Of course, there are no shortage of violent extremist groups throughout history (and the present) claiming to be Christian either, so the same arguments could easily be made the other way.


Sometimes, the extreme right-wing nuts that propagate this kind of thing do more to make it difficult to be Christian in today's world than the actively anti-Christian people/groups, and as far as religion goes, I'm a fairly conservative (theologically speaking) Christian.

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#10 Rhea

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 09:13 PM

rodglas, on Feb 26 2003, 09:04 AM, said:

As a believing, faithful, even fundementalist (not in the way your probably thinking) Christian, I can tell you that this kind of promotion of hatred is not in line with Biblical teaching.

Jesus told us to love on another, and to show love even to non-believers.  My faith teaches me (and there is no equivocation about this) that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.  It does not teach anyone to promote hatred, or mistrust of other groups or religions.

Frankly I'm not surprised that this was sent by a baptist minister, probably a southren baptist who are about the only major US denomination publically in support of a war against Iraq.

It is these kind of fanatic fundementalists that are giving Christianity a bad name.

Rod.
Er..yeah - I know it's not very Christian. And interestingly enough, although one of the statements was made by a Jewish author, the main statement was made by a Southern Baptist minister and sent to my mom by another Southern Baptist minister. <sigh> And having been raised Southern Baptist, that sort of explains why I ran screaming out of church and never went back.  :wacko:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#11 iMel

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 09:16 PM

Prejudice like this really ticks me off, especially from community role models like ministers.  People that influence a lot of others should try to spread tolerance, not hatred. :(
I use these words pretty loosely. There's so much more to life than words.
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Formerly known as Neozephryus :)

#12 Rivergirl

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 01:46 AM

rodglas, on Feb 26 2003, 05:04 PM, said:

As a believing, faithful, even fundementalist (not in the way your probably thinking) Christian, I can tell you that this kind of promotion of hatred is not in line with Biblical teaching.

Jesus told us to love on another, and to show love even to non-believers.  My faith teaches me (and there is no equivocation about this) that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.
Even more, we are required to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us.  Salvation through Jesus is available to them too -- and we may be the only way they hear the good news.  

Don't think the virulent anti-Muslim rhetoric is sharing much in the way of good news.
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#13 Kimmer

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 02:47 AM

Lover of Purple, on Feb 26 2003, 09:26 AM, said:

rodglas, on Feb 26 2003, 09:04 AM, said:

As a believing, faithful, even fundementalist (not in the way your probably thinking) Christian, I can tell you that this kind of promotion of hatred is not in line with Biblical teaching.

Jesus told us to love on another, and to show love even to non-believers.  My faith teaches me (and there is no equivocation about this) that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation.  It does not teach anyone to promote hatred, or mistrust of other groups or religions.

Frankly I'm not surprised that this was sent by a baptist minister, probably a southren baptist who are about the only major US denomination publically in support of a war against Iraq.

It is these kind of fanatic fundementalists that are giving Christianity a bad name.

Rod.
Actually, most baptists will back a decision the president makes becasue he is our president, not because they support war. How do I know? I am a baptist and talk with many, many others in regard to the potential war. We don't want war, heck no one really does, but we can see where the administration is coming from. Of course not everyone I talk to agree either...kind of like life ;)

Now, as far as the topic here, the so called "minister" IS intitled to his opinion I guess but he needs to put a disclaimer in. Kind of like :The views expressed by my narrow-minded ideals are not those of mainstream Christians.

It's people like this that cause the rest major problems.

As a matter of fact, my pastor did a sermon two weeks ago on NOT hating muslims because of 9/11!

And Hawk: your post has nothing offensive in it. I found it very insightfull and well thought out. Great job!!

And I want to thank everyone for keeping this very civil.
Thank you LoP for sharing my thoughts so eloquently. I left a Baptist church after 16 plus years because of the hatred, gossip, and back-stabbing that was going on. These same folks would behave this way no matter what church they were in, or what organization, or what bulletin board they belonged too!  ;)

Small minded people are small minded people -- and I don't care for any of them; but I try very hard not to lump folks in categories.

Rhea, I'm sorry your mom got this drivel.

((((( Rhea and mom )))))

#14 Godeskian

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 10:52 AM

http://www.snopes.co...ts/eidstamp.asp

moe information about it

and this is just drivel, and should be roundly ignored in my opinion

Defy Gravity!


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#15 Rhea

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:21 PM

Godeskian, on Feb 26 2003, 11:54 PM, said:

http://www.snopes.co...ts/eidstamp.asp

moe information about it

and this is just drivel, and should be roundly ignored in my opinion
Thanks for the link. Good article.

If this had been one of MY friends,  I would have replied, given them my opinion and asked them not to send me anything like this ever again. My mother, being of a different generation, said "Bleach!" and just deleted it with no comment.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#16 Call Me Robin

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 05:28 AM

Whoever forwarded those messages to your mother might be interested to know about the thousands of Muslims serving in the US armed forces.  

Need proof?  Here's a photo of US Navy sailors praying during Ramadan:

http://usinfo.state....fe/ramadan1.htm

And here's an article on Muslims in the military from the US State Department:

http://www.defenseli..._200110043.html

A quote from one Marine corps captain: "Those terrorists must be reading a completely different Koran than the rest of us."
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
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The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
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#17 rodglas

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 07:12 PM

Lover of Purple, on Feb 26 2003, 12:26 PM, said:

Actually, most baptists will back a decision the president makes becasue he is our president, not because they support war. How do I know? I am a baptist and talk with many, many others in regard to the potential war. We don't want war, heck no one really does, but we can see where the administration is coming from. Of course not everyone I talk to agree either...kind of like life ;)

Now, as far as the topic here, the so called "minister" IS intitled to his opinion I guess but he needs to put a disclaimer in. Kind of like :The views expressed by my narrow-minded ideals are not those of mainstream Christians.

It's people like this that cause the rest major problems.

As a matter of fact, my pastor did a sermon two weeks ago on NOT hating muslims because of 9/11!

And Hawk: your post has nothing offensive in it. I found it very insightfull and well thought out. Great job!!

And I want to thank everyone for keeping this very civil.
I didn't intend any slight against the Southern Baptists, though I understand it might of come off that way.  It is just that, as far as I'm aware, they are the only denomination in the States that is overtly supporting Bush's call for war.

It certaintly isn't people who support war for legit reasons who give christianity a bad name it is those, like our Baptist minister here, that represent the minority (though much more vocal and irrational) opinons.

Your disclaimer idea might work, if you could get this paster to believe that his view was potentially wrong, otherwise I'd imagine he claim that it didn't matter what the "mainstream" position was, he was speaking the word of God.

Rod.
"Requested items: One Mark V ECM unit, 1000 km of fullerene cable, one low yield nuclear warhead. Stated purpose: birthday party for foreign dignitary." --Argosy Special Operations Service requisition form, CY 9512

#18 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 11:03 PM

The sad thing is the generalizations.

Lil
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#19 BunRab

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 11:26 PM

Hey, I know what! Since Timothy McVeigh was a white, American, allegedly Christian, male, we should boycott any and all stamps that have white people, Americans, Christians, or men, on them!!!



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