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What Would Laura Bush Do?

Election 2004 Theressa Kerry John Kerry Democrats

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#41 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 10:15 AM

On Tuesday Kerry was yammering about how George Bush was slinging mud and aiming for the "lowest common denominator"*. And while I've seen a number of ads so far from both candidates, what I've seen so far is George Bush presenting his record, and John Kerry attacking George Bush while avoiding his own record**. Kerry is out there calling this administration the most crooked administration ever, and his wife is handing out buttons that declare that the President, Vice President, and certain cabinet members are evil asses. You were right. This is going to be a dirty campaign. And it's clear to me where all the dirt is coming from.

(Note for the clueless: "mudslinging" is not when you criticize a candidate's record.)

-----

*If true, at least the denominator is a common one. Which, I guess, means that Kerry is trying to tell us that he is as guilty as he claims Bush is. :cool:

**For more on Kerry's record, see this piece in Slate. Slate, rhymes with 'hate.' Which is how I generally feel about that rag. But I'll gladly quote my ideological enemies when they provide such excellent campaign fodder.
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#42 G1223

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 10:54 AM

So I wondered if what I rememebred of Kerry was true. Thanks Drew it's nice to see I wasn't. This Guy have a actual set in stone postion on anything? Except the one he could do the job better?

If I had not read that I would have felt Kerry was two faced. Now I know it.

I really liked flip on Education  I guess that donation form the NEA was just too good to pass up.

#43 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 11:36 AM

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 03:13 PM, said:

On Tuesday Kerry was yammering about how George Bush was slinging mud and aiming for the "lowest common denominator"*. And while I've seen a number of ads so far from both candidates, what I've seen so far is George Bush presenting his record, and John Kerry attacking George Bush while avoiding his own record**. Kerry is out there calling this administration the most crooked administration ever, and his wife is handing out buttons that declare that the President, Vice President, and certain cabinet members are evil asses. You were right. This is going to be a dirty campaign. And it's clear to me where all the dirt is coming from.
I'm not going to be a partisan hack and defend Kerry's most recent comment.  I think that, while factually true, it didn't set a good tone for the campaign.  

But don't pretend the RNC is pure as the driven snow here.  Not when they're sending out ranting, incoherent press releases about Kerry's North Korean backing and French environment minister first cousin.


http://www.rnc.org/R...ad.aspx?ID=3983

Not to mention Bush's own mischaracterization of Kerry's bill 9 years ago to return unspent National Reconaissance Office money to the taxpayers as "gutting the intelligence services."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096874/
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#44 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 11:55 AM

The reason the story about Ms. Heinz-Kerry annoyed me is because it wasn't just some side organization handing out the buttons. It was the prospective first lady herself. Yes, I have no doubt that there will be Republican (officially or unofficially) or conservative organizations that will body slam Kerry with ads. And they may be nasty. Campaigns can't control what unaffiliated groups say on their behalf. But the principal figures in that campaign--and prospective first ladies count here--should keep the discourse at a higher level than "asses of evil."

Edited by Drew, 11 March 2004 - 11:56 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#45 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:07 PM

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 04:53 PM, said:

The reason the story about Ms. Heinz-Kerry annoyed me is because it wasn't just some side organization handing out the buttons. It was the prospective first lady herself. Yes, I have no doubt that there will be Republican (officially or unofficially) or conservative organizations that will body slam Kerry with ads. And they may be nasty. Campaigns can't control what unaffiliated groups say on their behalf. But the principal figures in that campaign--and prospective first ladies count here--should keep the discourse at a higher level than "asses of evil."
I'll concede your point.  I, too, would like to see the level of discourse at a higher level, and agree that the button was silly and juvenile.  

But I get annoyed at the pot-kettle-black calling that goes on regarding the subject, especially by people like Lileks who really ought to know better.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#46 prolog

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:21 PM

Drew, on Mar 9 2004, 04:54 PM, said:

Zack, I guess we expect that a prospective First Lady (and by extension, her husband) wouldn't have to stoop to schoolyard name-calling. You once said that this is going to be a dirty campaign. "Dirty" is handing out buttons calling the opposition and his administration "asses." "Dirty" is not pointing out how low that is.
Why?  The best politicians are and were those that could lead while mocking their opposition.

Wife of prominent politician to Winston Churchill (with distain in her voice): Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!
Churchill: Yes, madam, and you are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober, and you will still be ugly.

I mean, everyone else in society does it, so why *not* politicians?  We've long known that they don't behave any better than the rest of us, so why not drop the pretenses?

#47 prolog

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:25 PM

Jid, on Mar 9 2004, 11:34 PM, said:

^ Well, in the spirit of both, DWF, I believe I must ask Drew a question...

Drew, does your avatar signify your support of the Phillipe 4 Prez in '04 campaign? ;)
It might, but I know who I'd vote for if I were American:

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#48 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:30 PM

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 11:19 AM, said:

We've long known that they don't behave any better than the rest of us, so why not drop the pretenses?
Because we really don't need more crassness in society. If that requires pretense, I say bring it on.
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#49 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:31 PM

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 05:19 PM, said:

Drew, on Mar 9 2004, 04:54 PM, said:

Zack, I guess we expect that a prospective First Lady (and by extension, her husband) wouldn't have to stoop to schoolyard name-calling. You once said that this is going to be a dirty campaign. "Dirty" is handing out buttons calling the opposition and his administration "asses." "Dirty" is not pointing out how low that is.
Why?  The best politicians are and were those that could lead while mocking their opposition.

Wife of prominent politician to Winston Churchill (with distain in her voice): Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!
Churchill: Yes, madam, and you are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober, and you will still be ugly.

I mean, everyone else in society does it, so why *not* politicians?  We've long known that they don't behave any better than the rest of us, so why not drop the pretenses?
Say what you will about Churchill, he slid the knife in with style!

Churchill on his opponent, Clement Atlee:  "A modest man, with much to be modest for."  And, later he described Atlee as "a sheep in sheep's clothing."
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#50 prolog

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:41 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 05:29 PM, said:

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 05:19 PM, said:

Drew, on Mar 9 2004, 04:54 PM, said:

Zack, I guess we expect that a prospective First Lady (and by extension, her husband) wouldn't have to stoop to schoolyard name-calling. You once said that this is going to be a dirty campaign. "Dirty" is handing out buttons calling the opposition and his administration "asses." "Dirty" is not pointing out how low that is.
Why?  The best politicians are and were those that could lead while mocking their opposition.

Wife of prominent politician to Winston Churchill (with distain in her voice): Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!
Churchill: Yes, madam, and you are ugly. But in the morning, I will be sober, and you will still be ugly.

I mean, everyone else in society does it, so why *not* politicians?  We've long known that they don't behave any better than the rest of us, so why not drop the pretenses?
Say what you will about Churchill, he slid the knife in with style!

Churchill on his opponent, Clement Atlee:  "A modest man, with much to be modest for."  And, later he described Atlee as "a sheep in sheep's clothing."
That's what I dig.  The man was the second-greatest leader in English history, and he didn't do it by pussyfooting, floating trial balloons, or taking public opinion polls.

#51 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:43 PM

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 11:39 AM, said:

That's what I dig.  The man was the second-greatest leader in English history, and he didn't do it by pussyfooting, floating trial balloons, or taking public opinion polls.
Sounds kind of like a "cowboy," doesn't he?  ;)
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#52 prolog

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:47 PM

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 05:28 PM, said:

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 11:19 AM, said:

We've long known that they don't behave any better than the rest of us, so why not drop the pretenses?
Because we really don't need more crassness in society. If that requires pretense, I say bring it on.
Personally, I think that we could get more done if we were honest about certain things.  Maybe Kerry's wife could say, "Yes, I called Bush an evil ass.  If I approved of him, why would I be campaigning for my husband?"

Here's a good one by Trudeau: "If I found in my own ranks that a certain number of guys wanted to cut my throat, I'd make sure that I cut their throats first."

It sure beats something like, "...I'm a uniter, not a divider. I refuse to play the politics of putting people into groups and pitting one group against another."

I like honesty.  It might be crass sometimes, but I'm in favour of politicians telling the truth more often.

#53 prolog

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 12:56 PM

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 05:41 PM, said:

prolog, on Mar 11 2004, 11:39 AM, said:

That's what I dig.  The man was the second-greatest leader in English history, and he didn't do it by pussyfooting, floating trial balloons, or taking public opinion polls.
Sounds kind of like a "cowboy," doesn't he?  ;)
Yeah, except that unlike a certain modern "cowboy", Churchill had immense mental capacities, and was capable of complex decision making.  Bush has his entourage.

#54 Bad Wolf

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:32 PM

I have to tell you guys that this entire thread cracks me up.  Honestly aren't there more important things to talk about than potty mouths???

:rolleyes:
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#55 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:57 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 11 2004, 12:30 PM, said:

I have to tell you guys that this entire thread cracks me up.  Honestly aren't there more important things to talk about than potty mouths???
There is a wide tapestry of things to talk about in an election year. This is merely one thread in that tapestry, but it is part of the tapestry. And it gives an indication of the tone of this campaign.

Edited by Drew, 11 March 2004 - 01:58 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#56 Bad Wolf

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:03 PM

^  Meh.  Just a lot of belly aching over a silly non issue if you ask me (and even if you don't). But hey if this is what juices ya be my guest.  :p
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#57 Shalamar

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 03:42 PM

Unfortunately pussyfooting, trial ballons, and polls are whats 'in' these days. Taking a solid, well thought out stance and sticking to it has gone the way of the dodo and great auk.

We seem to ask this of our politicians, and worse reward it.  I try to vote for the person who's not only stated view, but acted on, are closest to what I want to see done. Unfortunately thats as rare as hens teeth these days. It's very discourageing.

One of my favorite quotes "I was to busy trying to keep my job to DO my job"  (or close enough )  The American President. Andrew Shepherd, played by Michael Douglas.

and as far as the original question goes:

What would Laura Bush do?

(note not her husband, not the president, not any politician darn it but what would she do?)

I think like the quiet and gracious lady that she is she would have said "Thank you , but NO thank you" to any such crude and antagonistic button.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#58 Kosh

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:02 PM

Opps, should have read more!! Never mind!!

Edited by Kosh, 11 March 2004 - 05:04 PM.

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