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Kerry backs away from "Crooked liars" comment

Election 2004 John Kerry 2004

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#1 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:40 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2.../kerry.comment/

Quote

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry said on Thursday that he was not referring to all Republicans as "crooked" in an off-the-cuff comment captured on camera -- just his political opponents' "attack dogs."

After a union rally in Chicago, Illinois, on Wednesday Kerry told a worker that "these guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group of people I've ever seen." His microphone was still on when he made the comments.

I think it's the "you know" that bothers me the most. :cool:

Quote

Kerry, who was on Capitol Hill Thursday to meet with Congressional Democrats, he told CNN, "I didn't say it about the Republicans, I said it about the attack dogs."

. . . that and CNN's grammar problems. ;)

Quote

Kerry has touted himself as a "fighter" who will stand up to GOP attacks. He told the worker, "Don't worry, man -- we are going to keep pounding, let me tell you."

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, said on Thursday that he took "great umbrage" at the comment.

"I am one of those Republicans in Illinois," he said. "If he wants to ascribe to me being crooked and a liar, I think he'll have his (comeuppance) coming." Hastert said Kerry's remarks were "the wrong way to step forward in this campaign."

So what did Hastert say instead of "comeuppance"? :angel:

Quote

Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot called Kerry's "crooked" comment "unbecoming of a candidate for the presidency of the United States."

"We call on Senator Kerry to apologize to the American people for this negative attack," Racicot said in a statement Wednesday afternoon.

"On the day that Senator Kerry emerged as his party's presumptive nominee, the president called to congratulate him," Racicot said. "That goodwill gesture has been met by attacks and false statements."

Bush should just keep letting Kerry bury himself in the mud. But the problem is, eventually you have to get down in there and fight back. And then both players end up dirty.

Oh, by the way, I don't buy Kerry's explanation at all. Of course he was talking about Republicans. He was talking about the Bush administration. Does he really think we'll buy his excuse? It's like Justin Timberlake expecting us to believe that it was a "wardrobe malfunction."  :whistle:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#2 Bad Wolf

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:49 PM

Talking about "the administration" is not the same thing as talking about "all republicans" and I find it ludicrous that anyone even needs to point that out.
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#3 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:49 PM

I have no problem at all with the comment itself; it's refreshing to hear what Kerry really things. <I also believe that it was directed towards Bush et al, but no way to be sure>

The audio itself, however, is creepy. It's almost totally infectionless. It's like he NEVER loosens up...
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#4 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:52 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 11 2004, 01:47 PM, said:

Talking about "the administration" is not the same thing as talking about "all republicans" and I find it ludicrous that anyone even needs to point that out.
It does make one wonder why Kerry backed off, then. Why couldn't he have just said "I'm not talking about just any Republicans. I'm talking about the crooked liars in the White House!"
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#5 Bad Wolf

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:54 PM

^  Yup I wish he'd said that.  Or rather he should have said sorry for using the word crooked and changed it to mendacious.
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#6 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 03:13 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 11 2004, 12:52 PM, said:

^  Yup I wish he'd said that.  Or rather he should have said sorry for using the word crooked and changed it to mendacious.
Which would have provoked a hilarious Bush reaction along the lines of, "Senator Kerry thinks I'm manlicious? I'm flattered, but I'm not really into that sort of thing..."

/Couldn't resist.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#7 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 03:14 PM

Here's an interesting column about these off-the-cuff comments and their role in and effect on campaigns.

Quote

. . . mainstream candidates don't accuse each other of flat-out lying lightly, and the Kerry camp gamely tried to explain the remark by suggesting it was not, precisely, about Bush himself, but rather about GOP critics of the senator in general.

``This is language you don't ordinarily use in public,'' said Kathleen Hall Jamieson, an authority on campaign rhetoric with the Annenberg Public Policy Center. She was referring to presidential candidates in the main, noting that accusations of lying flew loosely from the lips of also-rans in the Democratic primary race and from others over the years.

Presidential campaigns have occasionally been thrown off stride by flaps over comments that were meant to be private and turned out to be anything but. Bush, in a faux pas also set in Illinois, stood on a podium with running mate Dick Cheney in the 2000 campaign and used an obscenity to describe a reporter in the nearby press area.

``I regret everybody heard what I said,'' Bush remarked later, which was not quite the same as regretting saying it. Jamieson recalled that the Bush campaign got knocked off message for a few days as a result.

More often, however, the problem in politics is not about a forgotten open mike but a case of mouths getting ahead of minds.

Howard Dean's almost hysterically happy speech after coming third in the Iowa Democratic caucuses contributed to his campaign's sudden fade.

Back in 1988, Bob Dole was marked as an angry man after his biting comment in an interview with NBC's Tom Brokaw, who asked if he had any message for his GOP primary rival George Bush, this president's father. ``Stop lying about my record,'' Dole snapped, as the two candidates appeared separately but simultaneously.

And Spiro Agnew, as Richard Nixon's running mate in 1968, did his boss no favor in a Detroit speech in which he said: ``If you've seen one city slum you've seen them all.''

. . .

Quote

In a Rolling Stone interview geared to readers who don't expect Boy Scout language, [Kerry] described Bush's Iraq policy in profane terms, saying, ``Did I expect George Bush to f--- it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did.'' He shrugged off a White House request that he apologize.

And he let his frustration show when reporters kept asking him about Dean this, Dean that, back in September when the former Vermont governor's campaign was ascendant.

Kerry finished a news conference and, not thinking about a live mike, walked away muttering ``Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean.''

Campaigns might not like unscripted episodes but Chris Lehane, a former aide in the Kerry campaign and strategist for Al Gore in 2000, said they ``will really be a window into these candidates' personalities,'' and can help a campaign if they are handled well.

Edited by Drew, 11 March 2004 - 03:15 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#8 Bad Wolf

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 03:16 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 11 2004, 12:11 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 11 2004, 12:52 PM, said:

^  Yup I wish he'd said that.  Or rather he should have said sorry for using the word crooked and changed it to mendacious.
Which would have provoked a hilarious Bush reaction along the lines of, "Senator Kerry thinks I'm manlicious? I'm flattered, but I'm not really into that sort of thing..."

/Couldn't resist.
Dammit Rovvie will you please warn me to put down my drink before you say this kind of stuff??????   :eek4:  :lol:  :eek4:
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#9 GiGi

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 04:17 PM

^He's good at that, isn't he!!!!!  :hehe:

Sort of on topic, what was it that Bush & Co. did against McCain in the 2000 election?  I remember seeing a TV program about it, something like they called up Republicans in certain districts before the primaries and spread a bunch of lies about McCain.  Was this true?  I have been trying to find some information about that and haven't.
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#10 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 04:53 PM

GiGi, on Mar 11 2004, 09:15 PM, said:

^He's good at that, isn't he!!!!!  :hehe:

Sort of on topic, what was it that Bush & Co. did against McCain in the 2000 election?  I remember seeing a TV program about it, something like they called up Republicans in certain districts before the primaries and spread a bunch of lies about McCain.  Was this true?  I have been trying to find some information about that and haven't.
Gigi:

The technique is called "push polling."  It's basically calling someone and pretending to do a poll when you're really asking loaded questions like "Would you support senator so and so if you knew he dissected kittens?" (actually, that's a bad example, given that the Senate majority leader really did dissect kittens after pretending to adopt them)

In the case of South Carolina, the push polling was also supported by mass mailings and blast faxes that variously accused McCain of being insane from his Vietnam captivity, having a drug addict wife, and having fathered an illegitimate black child.  


Oh, and how is this backing away from the "crooked liars" comment?

"I have no intention whatsoever of apologizing for my remarks," Kerry said during a news conference on the Senate side of the Capitol.

http://www.sfgate.co...1446EST0715.DTL

My favorite part of the article:  

As Republican congressional leaders criticized Kerry's proposals and called for him to stop name-calling and negative campaigning, Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., said they see Kerry as "Ted Kennedy on a South Beach diet."


So stop that negative campaigning, you meanie!  Oh yeah, and your friend is fat.
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#11 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 04:58 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 03:51 PM, said:

Oh, and how is this backing away from the "crooked liars" comment?

"I have no intention whatsoever of apologizing for my remarks," Kerry said during a news conference on the Senate side of the Capitol.
He's just been spending the last 24 hours redefining his remarks so they mean something other than "Republicans."  :wacko:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#12 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:20 PM

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 09:56 PM, said:

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 03:51 PM, said:

Oh, and how is this backing away from the "crooked liars" comment?

"I have no intention whatsoever of apologizing for my remarks," Kerry said during a news conference on the Senate side of the Capitol.
He's just been spending the last 24 hours redefining his remarks so they mean something other than "Republicans."  :wacko:
And you're a telepath and knew exactly who he was talking about in the first place, how?
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:24 PM

^

Here's my question: What's the audio of just before Kerry made that comment? Like, he said that "These guys are...". Who were the last people he was talking about? That would, to me, seem critical, but nobody seems to have that information or a transcript of that which led up to the debacle.

You'd think that would be the first question a journalist would ask... what am I missing? If the mic was on, we should be able to get more context fairly easily, right?

EDIT: Thanks Lil and GiGi. And with a setup like that, all the hard work was done for me... ;)

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 11 March 2004 - 05:27 PM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#14 Drew

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:34 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 04:18 PM, said:

Drew, on Mar 11 2004, 09:56 PM, said:

He's just been spending the last 24 hours redefining his remarks so they mean something other than "Republicans."  :wacko:
And you're a telepath and knew exactly who he was talking about in the first place, how?
Context is everything. Who's he campaigning against? Who did he promise that he'd keep "pounding" until November? I suppose he could have been talking about dolphins, or martians, or teddy bears . . . or even Union Bosses (although that's not too likely, given the context, . . . and the fact that he's still got his kneecaps).
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#15 Delvo

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:25 PM

I don't see what the big deal is here. It's precisely the same BS he's been spewing all along. Why treat this one incident like it's something new or different? Because it shows that he's so consumed by his bloodlust that he can't ever pause from it and quit talking about it even when he's not actually making a public speech?

#16 Delvo

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:27 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 03:51 PM, said:

how is this backing away from the "crooked liars" comment?

"I have no intention whatsoever of apologizing for my remarks," Kerry said during a news conference on the Senate side of the Capitol.
No, that's not the backing away part. The backing away was a different set of quotes, and nobody pretended THIS quote was it. You've got to remember to distinguish his flips from his flops.

#17 GiGi

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:51 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 01:51 PM, said:

The technique is called "push polling."  It's basically calling someone and pretending to do a poll when you're really asking loaded questions like "Would you support senator so and so if you knew he dissected kittens?" (actually, that's a bad example, given that the Senate majority leader really did dissect kittens after pretending to adopt them)

In the case of South Carolina, the push polling was also supported by mass mailings and blast faxes that variously accused McCain of being insane from his Vietnam captivity, having a drug addict wife, and having fathered an illegitimate black child.
Thanks Zack, that was the info I was looking for, and despite it's polite name of "push polling" it seems like fighting dirty to me.  So is what Kerry doing that is dirtier than this?  It seems pretty low to attack a fellow Republican and War Vet in this way when he was leading in the polls.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#18 MuseZack

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 06:55 PM

GiGi, on Mar 11 2004, 11:49 PM, said:

MuseZack, on Mar 11 2004, 01:51 PM, said:

The technique is called "push polling."  It's basically calling someone and pretending to do a poll when you're really asking loaded questions like "Would you support senator so and so if you knew he dissected kittens?" (actually, that's a bad example, given that the Senate majority leader really did dissect kittens after pretending to adopt them)

In the case of South Carolina, the push polling was also supported by mass mailings and blast faxes that variously accused McCain of being insane from his Vietnam captivity, having a drug addict wife, and having fathered an illegitimate black child.
Thanks Zack, that was the info I was looking for, and despite it's polite name of "push polling" it seems like fighting dirty to me.  So is what Kerry doing that is dirtier than this?  It seems pretty low to attack a fellow Republican and War Vet in this way when he was leading in the polls.
Indeed, Kerry constantly references the campaign against McCain in 2000 and Max Cleland in 2002.  He took both of those very personally, since both men are fellow Vietnam combat veterans as well as personal friends.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#19 Banapis

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 08:25 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 11 2004, 07:47 PM, said:

The audio itself, however, is creepy. It's almost totally infectionless.
I would hope it's infectionless! ;) Wait a second, you said it was only "almost totally" infectionless...  :eek2:

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Live at 11, Channel 12 Action News reveals the shocking dangers of ATDs - auditorily transmitted diseases!   What you don't know can hurt you, but knowing can hurt you if you listened to find out!

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#20 Delvo

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 08:35 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 11 2004, 04:22 PM, said:

Here's my question: What's the audio of just before Kerry made that comment?
Nothing distinguishable; it's muffled and there's lots of background noise, as if it's not even Kerry's microphone but that of somebody else nearby who isn't talking. But right after "the most crooked, lying..." bit was "...good-for-nothing sons of bitches". I wonder why they're letting out the first part but essentially protecting him from the latter, and most would say worse, part... oh, wait a minute, no I don't. :sarcasm:



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