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Remember those 'actor' firefighters?

Election 2004 Bush Actor Firefighters Campaign ad

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#1 Rov Judicata

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:44 AM

We've alluded to Bush's 'gaffe' here:

http://www.exisle.ne...3393&hl=firemen

Zack linked to this Newsweek story:

Quote

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4467791
Another less-publicized aspect of the ad flap: the use of paid actors—including two playing firefighters with fire hats and uniforms in what looks like a fire station. "Where the hell did they get those guys?" cracked Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, which has endorsed John Kerry, when he first saw the ads. (A union spokesman said the shots prompted jokes that the fire hats looked like the plastic hats "from a birthday party.") "There's many reasons not to use real firemen," retorted one Bush media adviser. "Mainly, its cheaper and quicker."


Kind of a funny story:

The link Zack provided has changed: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4467791

It was:

Quote

Another less-publicized aspect of the ad flap: the use of paid actors—including two playing firefighters with fire hats and uniforms in what looks like a fire station. "Where the hell did they get those guys?" cracked Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, which has endorsed John Kerry, when he first saw the ads. (A union spokesman said the shots prompted jokes that the fire hats looked like the plastic hats "from a birthday party.") "There's many reasons not to use real firemen," retorted one Bush media adviser. "Mainly, its cheaper and quicker."

Then, they stealth-edited it. After the blogosphere called them on it, they added this editor's note:

Quote

Editor's Note: In our initial reporting for this story, we were told by a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's media team that paid actors had been used to portray firefighters in its first election ads, which drew heavily on images from 9/11. After publication, the official told us that he had been mistaken. The Bush-Cheney campaign also provided NEWSWEEK with documents indicating that the people in the ads were authentic volunteer firefighters, not actors.

On Monday, March 8, after questions were initially raised about the facts in the story, changes were made to the online version. These changes were made in violation of Newsweek.com policy, which requires that substantive alterations be made in an accompanying editor’s note or correction. In conformance with that policy, the original version of the story was restored to the Web site on Tuesday, March 9.

This is bizzare. Would a campaign official really make such a huge gaffe about a large matter of fact? If Newsweek was, in fact, told that they were paid actors by a campaign official, then I don't place any blame on them, but a name would be nice. Who was it? I wonder if Bush/Cheney will issue a statement? The whole situation is bizzare.

But the important part is this: Bush/Cheney didn't use actor firefighters. Real firefighters can and do support the reelection campaign... some so much that they'll volunteer to be in their commercials. :cool:.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 16 March 2004 - 11:59 AM.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#2 the 'Hawk

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:51 AM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 16 2004, 11:42 AM, said:

But the important part is
There's an *important* part to all this? It sounds like a tempest in a teapot.

:cool:
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#3 Rov Judicata

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:53 AM

the'Hawk, on Mar 16 2004, 09:49 AM, said:

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 16 2004, 11:42 AM, said:

But the important part is
There's an *important* part to all this? It sounds like a tempest in a teapot.

:cool:
... erm, yes. Either Bush's staff is woefully disorganized, or Newsweek is simply lying. Either way, there are significiant political implications. Further, if "The firefighters are fake!" is a legit issue, then, by extension, "No they're not!" is too...
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#4 the 'Hawk

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:55 AM

^ Would "I told you so" also be a legitimate political issue?

How about "I know you are, but what am I?"

:cool:
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#5 Nikcara

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:57 AM

You know, I really don't like the use of any firefighters in a campain strategy.  Yes, there are firefighters who like Bush.  There are also some (most of my fire dept) who think he's an absolutly horrible president.  Bush didn't make the sacrifices that those firefighters made.  He had NOTHING to do with it in fact.  To use their bravery and heroism for his own political gain is distasteful to say the least.
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#6 Rov Judicata

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:57 AM

the'Hawk, on Mar 16 2004, 09:53 AM, said:

^ Would "I told you so" also be a legitimate political issue?

How about "I know you are, but what am I?"

:cool:
Yes, they're used on a regular basis. ;).
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#7 silverwind

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 12:09 PM

Nikcara, on Mar 16 2004, 10:55 AM, said:

Bush didn't make the sacrifices that those firefighters made.  He had NOTHING to do with it in fact.  To use their bravery and heroism for his own political gain is distasteful to say the least.
Nicely put  :cool:
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#8 G1223

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 01:11 PM

Actually it shows that the Democratic supports will lie and only when confronted change their stories.  Note the Story Forigen Leader's support Kerry now that people are asking for names it's not that great a tool.

Almost like McCarthy "I have a list of names of 10,000 people in the Military who are memebers of the Communist party."  McCarthy would not show the list and the names and now Kerry will not say who supports him among Forigen Leaders. Altoght North Korea would be in the top Ten with Syria not farbehind either.

Edited by G1223, 16 March 2004 - 01:45 PM.


#9 Kosh

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:16 PM

They probably used actors. I don't think it would be legal to use news footage without the permission of the person in the film.
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#10 Delvo

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 04:34 PM

It's not "news footage" that's being talked about; it's just some pictures of firefighters at their station.

If whoever was asked about the use of actors didn't know they were real firefighters, (s)he should've just said "I don't know about that".

And about the fake equipment that wasn't fake: That's just the kind of put-down masquerading as humor that's to be expected. And it's designed to intimidate people out of countering it because those who said it knew that most people really might not be able to tell real and fake equipment apart (or might not think they can), and would rather just humbly accept the put-down than demonstrate their ignorance on the subject.

#11 Nikcara

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Posted 16 March 2004 - 11:11 PM

Why should we even give a flip if the firefighters were real or actors?  Either way it's taking advantage of heroism during a tradgy and the only people who should be allowed to say if their sacrifices could be used for one politcal platform or the other are dead.

You can find firefighters at both ends of the political spectrum.  Any politican that says 'they have the country's figherfighters behind them' or even implies it is full of it.  It wouldn't be that hard for Kerry to find real fire fighters to say that Bush is ruining the country.  And I would get pissed at him too for using the image of heroism that he had nothing to do with.
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#12 Rhea

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:29 PM

the'Hawk, on Mar 16 2004, 09:53 AM, said:

^ Would "I told you so" also be a legitimate political issue?

How about "I know you are, but what am I?"

:cool:
How about "Nuts to that!" as a corollary.  :devil:

I've said before that as far as I'm concerned Bush is not and never will be a hero of 9/11. The real heroes are the rescue workers, firefighters included (and those of the victims who helped everybody else get the hell out). To take advantage of it for a campaign ad is cheap and tawdry.

Plus, it's particularly ironic, as the Int'l. Association of Firefighters did NOT endorse the self-painted hero of 9/11.

Edited by Rhea, 17 March 2004 - 07:30 PM.

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#13 Rov Judicata

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:32 PM

Nikcara, on Mar 16 2004, 09:55 AM, said:

You know, I really don't like the use of any firefighters in a campain strategy.
In that case, Kerry is worse than Bush in this regard:

http://seattletimes....ghters13m0.html
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#14 Delvo

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:37 PM

Why are we all acting as if Bush were claiming to be a hero? The ad was a list of challenges he's faced as President that he believes he's responded to well. That's not claiming heroism.

#15 the 'Hawk

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:43 PM

Rhea, on Mar 17 2004, 07:27 PM, said:

How about "Nuts to that!" as a corollary.  :devil:
That's not politics! That is to say, I'm not politics! ;)

Nuts to politics!

:cool:
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~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#16 Nikcara

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 11:07 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 18 2004, 12:30 AM, said:

Nikcara, on Mar 16 2004, 09:55 AM, said:

You know, I really don't like the use of any firefighters in a campain strategy.
In that case, Kerry is worse than Bush in this regard:

http://seattletimes....ghters13m0.html
I don't really agree with that either.  The only things I can really say to that is the IAFF chose for itself who to endorse and I can't really find grounds to tell organizations that they can't have interest in politics.  Other than that, I haven't see any firefighters in any of Kerry's ads (granted I don't watch much tv).  If I did, I'd still say it was distastful.
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Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#17 Shalamar

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 11:30 PM

Having this happen is even more distastefull to me than a few very brief images in a 30 second ad.

Quote

Kerry recognized the union's role by making Schaitberger a co-chairman of his campaign. The candidate will speak Monday at the union's legislative conference in Washington, D.C.

It certainly looks like Kerry has no hesitation in useing firefighters and the image a firefighter generates in his campaign.
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#18 Nikcara

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Posted 17 March 2004 - 11:40 PM

^yeah, I have beef with that.
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#19 Godeskian

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 09:21 AM

me too

For better or for worse, America proved to me that it had plenty of real heros around september 11th, and funnily enough neither George Bush (Who's heroic activity was to run like hell for a nice safe bunker while his citizens died) and Kerry (Whom i'd never even heard of before the current election) makes that list.

Every single firefighter, every volunteer, every blood donor, yeah, they make the list.

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#20 Norville

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 11:07 AM

Quote

For better or for worse, America proved to me that it had plenty of real heros around september 11th, and funnily enough neither George Bush (Who's heroic activity was to run like hell for a nice safe bunker while his citizens died)

Excuse me, just to be fair here, it's not necessarily that he ran away, but that the people guarding him decided it would be a good idea to keep him safe in case of worse attacks. (After all, the government has ensured that, in case of nuclear war, it will survive even if all its unimportant little citizenry dies... *they've* got underground bunkers and the like.) That makes sense to me and I don't really see why people have to make such a big production of it and claim that he ran away like a coward. I had the impression that he was kept away. (Would he have stayed if he could have? I don't know and won't guess, because the Secret Service would've insisted that he leave.)

Quote

and Kerry (Whom i'd never even heard of before the current election) makes that list.

Every single firefighter, every volunteer, every blood donor, yeah, they make the list.

Agreed.
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