45 replies to this topic

[Drew]

Before the elections even take place, John Kerry is ready to go to court to ensure he doesn't lose Florida.

Excerpt:

Quote

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - John Kerry said Monday that he is ready to go to court - even before the November election - to ensure that he does not lose Florida's 27 electoral votes because of ballot problems.

And he directly accused Republicans of stealing the 2000 election for President Bush in a contest that was finally settled by the U.S. Supreme Court, giving the president a 537-vote victory.

"What can you do to prevent them from stealing the election again?" Kerry asked a crowd of hundreds at the Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center in Hollywood, his first stop in a three-city Florida campaign swing Monday.

"We're going to pre-check it; we're going to have the legal team in place," said Kerry, who expected to easily win today's Florida presidential primary. "We're going to take injunctions where necessary ahead of time. We'll pre-challenge if necessary."

Andrew Cline in the National Review writes:

Quote

In reference to President Bush's victory in Florida in the 2000 election, a Floridian asked John Kerry this week, "What can you do to prevent them from stealing the election again?"

Instead of correcting the man's terminology, Kerry left it unchallenged and responded, "We're going to pre-check it, we're going to have the legal team in place.... We're going to take injunctions where necessary ahead of time. We'll pre-challenge if necessary."

. . .

Last December Kerry told Florida Democrats, "Florida is the place where America's democracy was wounded." He also said, "We had more votes; we won! None of us are going to forget."

Apparently Kerry (along with most Democrats) forgot that USA Today, the Miami Herald, the Tampa Tribune, the Bradenton Herald, Florida Today, the Tallahassee Democrat, the News-Press of Fort Myers, the Pensacola News Journal, Knight-Ridder newspapers, and the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago (hired by the Washington Post, the New York Times, and several other newspapers) all reviewed the Florida election results of 2000, and found that not only did Bush win the ballots that were officially counted, but he also won after counting every ballot cast.

When questioned about his claim that Al Gore "had more votes" and won the election, and presented with evidence that demonstrates the contrary, Kerry said,

Quote

"I stand by my statements, even though I know they are false. But check back with me tomorrow. I may backpedal for a few days. Meanwhile let's not lose sight of the real issue here or change the subject which is that my opponent is a mudslinging ninny."

Okay, I made up that last part. But it sounds about right, doesn't it?  

[D'Monix]

wow

[Anna]

Drew, on Mar 16 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

When questioned about his claim that Al Gore "had more votes" and won the election, and presented with evidence that demonstrates the contrary, Kerry said,

Quote

"I stand by my statements, even though I know they are false. But check back with me tomorrow. I may backpedal for a few days. Meanwhile let's not lose sight of the real issue here or change the subject which is that my opponent is a mudslinging ninny."

Okay, I made up that last part. But it sounds about right, doesn't it?  

Thanks, Drew! I needed that!  

Anna

[Bad Wolf]

*sigh*  

[GiGi]

Ditto!!    

[Lord of the Sword]

Got to give him credit though...He seems to be in touch with the current ideology of America...If I don't get what I want I'll sue until I either get money or what I want...preferrably I'll get both.

[the 'Hawk]

^ Not only that, but he's hedging his bets. It's both a threat to those running the show in Florida, and a promise to the rest of America, that he's serious about those electoral votes.

(And there's a lot of them. So he'd be a fool not to be.)

So he's publicly stating that he's not afraid to fight for Florida. I mean, that sends a pretty strong message. Although President Bush clearly, based on the research, would've won Florida regardless. He's not making it about the last election. He's making it about his turn to win.

And, really, it looks as though this election might be every bit as fifty-fifty as the last one. So, can you blame him for trying to be prepared?

[Drew]

the'Hawk, on Mar 16 2004, 02:27 PM, said:

He's not making it about the last election.

How's he not making it about the last election? That seemed to be the entire basis of his appeal! "They stole it last time. We'll win this time even if we have to go to court to do it!"  

Quote

He's making it about his turn to win.

In fact, he seems to think he deserves to win as a reward for showing up. I wonder if he'll find a stable plank for his platform by election day. (Other than "I'm not George Bush.")

Edited by Drew, 16 March 2004 - 03:50 PM.

[Bad Wolf]

MEMO TO JOHN KERRY:

COURTS HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING INVOLVED IN DECIDING WHO GETS TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  Source:  The Constitution of the United States of America.

Lil

[Banapis]

So now there is outcry that John Kerry has promised to Florida voters that said if problems are identified at voting sites ahead of time his legal team will seek injunctions to remedy the problems before the election, rather than act post-election when the stuff has already hit the fan?

People think this is a bad idea?



Banapis

[Drew]

Banapis, on Mar 16 2004, 02:53 PM, said:

People think this is a bad idea?

You'll have to ask him what injunctions he had in mind.

But wouldn't it be better if he won in Florida because Floridians liked him better? Perhaps the sort of things he should talk about on the stump are the issues that are important to Floridians. Instead, he tells outright lies* to whip up anger against the Republicans.

----

*Perhaps "lies" is too harsh. Perhaps he's just ignorant of facts.

Edited by Drew, 16 March 2004 - 04:03 PM.

[Bad Wolf]

The part about trying to avoid problems ahead of time is a fine idea.  The part about letting the courts get further involved in a process they have no business being involved in is a terrible idea.

[G1223]

But Lil it's part of Kerry's I will win by hook or by crook. I must do everything including having the Supreme court of the US  forced to handle this case and then rule in my favor.


Lil he's the guy who's not Bush so this must be a good thing. After all Bush is Satan and cannot have a second term.

So it's Ok if he breaks the rules he's doing it for the right reasons. Trust him

[StarDust]

It's hyperbole.

The Florida situation last time was no doubt a total and complete mess, but it is highly questionable what would have happened if things had run smoothly.  The fact that the electorate seemed confused in their method of voting made it just as difficult in re-counts.  

The system has had a complete overhaul since.

I suspect Florida has had issues for some time, just no one noticed.  The democrats stressed because they assumed Florida was their god-given right.  No such thing. And, wrongly in my opinion, several cuban groups that normally would vote Democrat didn't because of the Elian issue. But that's the way it goes.

However, again, Kerry is being negative and hostile, and I would think if you were a Floridian it would be a serious turn off. He's basically insulting them.  Assuming there will be problems ahead of times, and yes threatening people. There are ways of doing things. And for someone who thinks Bush is overly agressive internationally, let's say Kerry is doing a damn fine immitation of his accusations internally during this campaign.

[Rov Judicata]

the'Hawk, on Mar 16 2004, 01:27 PM, said:

And, really, it looks as though this election might be every bit as fifty-fifty as the last one. So, can you blame him for trying to be prepared?

If both candidates continue to be so obnoxious the election may well be 60-20-20, in favour of a bag of lettuce.

[Banapis]

Drew, on Mar 16 2004, 09:00 PM, said:

But wouldn't it be better if he won in Florida because Floridians liked him better?

I do have the sneaking suspicion that might be part of his strategy.

Seems to be working too.  A FL poll from March 7 indicates Floridians like Kerry better to the tune of  49% to 43%.  Even more worrying for the current White House though is probably this number from the Florida poll:

Quote

Fifty-seven percent of independents back Kerry, compared with a little more than one in three for Bush.

http://www.miami.com...ald/8125717.htm


Banapis

[Anna]

Edit: Dang, Banapis snuck in there!

Quote

Rov: If both candidates continue to be so obnoxious the election may well be 60-20-20, in favour of a bag of lettuce.

I still firmly believe that if I changed my name to "None of the Above" and got on the ballot, I could win any election in the country. And by a large margin.  

Anna

Edited by RPITA, 16 March 2004 - 04:27 PM.

[Banapis]

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 16 2004, 09:19 PM, said:

If both candidates continue to be so obnoxious the election may well be 60-20-20, in favour of a bag of lettuce.

Well, the history books always point out the Founding Fathers drew great inspiration from the Romaines.

Banapis

[the 'Hawk]

Javert Rovinski, on Mar 16 2004, 04:19 PM, said:

the election may well be 60-20-20, in favour of a bag of lettuce.

Don't make me beat that bag of lettuce with the Constitution. Only citizens born within the United States are eligible to run for President.

And even then, does that lettuce meet the property ownership requirements? What's that bag of lettuce's war record?
Did it inhale?
What's its father's connection to major corporations?
What's its stance on abortion?
Can we REALLY trust a bag of lettuce with its, er..... leaf on the button?

And so on!

[Cait]

Una Salus Lillius, on Mar 16 2004, 12:44 PM, said:

MEMO TO JOHN KERRY:

COURTS HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING INVOLVED IN DECIDING WHO GETS TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  Source:  The Constitution of the United States of America.

Lil

[aside]Memo to Lil:

It has come to my attention that we have been spending far too much time in each other's head lately.  This leaves me with only one course of action........

I'm sending Self to live with you.  She is no trouble at all, and you'll get used to her whining in no time.  

Sincerely,

Your twin in LA[/end aside]

PS: [back on topic] I agree, the last election was a travesty, but not because one party won over another--but because the election itself was decided through the courts.  Dangerous precedent was set, very dangerous.  I hate to think about a free election ending up with the courts to decide.  No matter which candidate or party seeks remedy there.  It scares me actually.[/end back on topic]