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Kerry and the "foragainst" method

Election 2004 John Kerry 2004

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#21 G1223

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:23 AM

I do not question Kerry about personal combat he earned the CMH. I do not qurstion his questioning of himself he did a few years back. But his policies have nothing to do with his ability to be a SEAL. They have to do with what he has said about everything. Which seems to be "I will SAY ANYTHING to get elected even if it's against something I supported just a few moments ago."

Bush has changed his mind on topics but not with the speed of Kerry.

#22 GiGi

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 04:44 PM

Drew, on Mar 19 2004, 06:33 AM, said:

Of course, if he really saw what he claimed to see, one must ask him why he didn't do anything about it.
Drew, are you serious about that statement?  What was he supposed to do given the context of Vietnam?

I don't know what Kerry claimed to have seen as I have not yet researched it.  But my neighbor has told me enough of the goings on there to know things were a mess.  He was in the radio unit attached to Calli's group that massacred the village that was the big news when I was a kid.  The press made a really big deal about that incident and yet there were many, many more we didn't hear about.  My neighbor gave the soldiers the coordinates that lead them to that village.  It would be easy to say he could have stopped it.  But could he, really?  First of all he was given the info from lookouts and passed it on to the soldiers, he may or may not of know a village sat on those coordinates.  And say he did, what could he really do to stop it, he was not in a position of command, he could not make a call on whether or not to have the troops advance.  If he faked information then it would land on him, whether or not he would have stopped a horrible situation.

It is easy to judge things after the fact...
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#23 Drew

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 05:04 PM

GiGi, on Mar 19 2004, 03:42 PM, said:

Drew, on Mar 19 2004, 06:33 AM, said:

Of course, if he really saw what he claimed to see, one must ask him why he didn't do anything about it.
Drew, are you serious about that statement?
Yes. According to Kerry's testimony before Congress in 1971, he witnessed American servicemen doing the following: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blew up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Viet Nam."

Retired Army Col. Glenn Lackey wrote the following letter to Mr. Kerry:

Quote

Dear Mr. Kerry;

After spending only four months in the country of Vietnam, you testified before Congress in 1971 with these exact words about incidents you say you witnessed: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blew up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Viet Nam."

Spread that on a farmer's field where it will do some good. I spent a year there in 1968-69 in a combat arms unit. I was a Field Artillery Forward Observer in an Infantry company and I saw combat every day until I was wounded. When I returned from the hospital, I was assigned to an artillery battery. I saw brave men fight and die; I saw brave, good men pass out all their rations to hungry kids, build churches and schools, donate to orphanages, cry silently at the sight of villagers slaughtered by North Vietnamese, but I never saw anything approaching the war crimes that you happened to witness as your boat sped by villages on the river bank. If you witnessed atrocities and did not report them, you are guilty of aiding and abetting. If you lied, you are simply unfit for leadership at any level. The most serious incident I witnessed was a young sergeant who grabbed the arm of a Vietnamese woman during a village search. An older, more experienced noncommissioned officer knocked the sergeant to the ground and told him, somewhat forcefully, that that woman was someone's mother and would be treated with respect. That's it, Kerry, that's my confession - I didn't report the incident.

I have children, and my children have children. They will, perhaps, stumble upon your words, much as one might stumble upon a pile of dog droppings. I do not relish the thought of having to explain that your "experiences" are either a bald-faced lie, or you belong to that less-than-1% of Viet Nam veterans who committed war crimes/atrocities. Either way, your words do great harm to the institution of the Senate, my home state of Massachusetts, the Armed Services in which I proudly served for 27 years, and the very country that you aspire to lead.

Is it true that you single-handedly prevented a vote on a Senate version of H.R. 2833, the Viet Nam Human Rights Act of 2001 - a bill that passed the House by a vote of 410-1? There are many who believe that our failure to speak decisively on that issue cost the lives of thousands of Montagnard tribesman in Viet Nam. Where do you stand on H.R. 1587, the Viet Nam Human Rights Act of 2003? Will you support a parallel bill in the Senate? Is it true that you served as Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on MIA/POW Affairs and in that role you fought hard to limit the expenditure of funds to investigate sightings or search for remains? You have, I believe, been a steadfast, staunch and vocal advocate for normalizing relations with Viet Nam. Could it be that your beloved first cousin, Mr. Forbes, CEO of Colliers International, recently signed a contract with Hanoi worth billions of dollars? Any truth to the rumor that you didn't really fling your "hard-earned" military medals over the White House fence in a juvenile fit of pique as you say you did, but rather, you threw your roommate's medals instead?

I know dozens of retired military professionals. None of them support you - there is a reason for that. They all served honorably and well, and they all believe that you did not. I know war heroes, and your, sir, are no war hero.

-- Glenn Lackey

Edited by Drew, 19 March 2004 - 05:36 PM.

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#24 GiGi

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 05:23 PM

Drew, on Mar 19 2004, 02:02 PM, said:

Yes. According to Kerry's testimony before Congress in 1971, he witnessed American servicemen doing the following: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blew up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Viet Nam."
Okay, yes then I saw that.  My neighbor has not mentioned things like that (but he will rarely talk about his experience)  As I have said in other threads, the only things I know are what my neighbor told my husband, one of the few people he has ever told of his experiences.  I quickly forgot the things my husband told me of my neighbor's experience as they are that awful and I know there were worse things I wasn't even told.

My neighbor has issues, but I have seen Vietnam Vets way worse off.  In war horrible things happen.  In that war in particular the level of horror was very high.

The letter you quoted is one person's experience and quite frankly I saw things on TV as a child that were far more intense than the things he sites as his war experiences... on TV, during dinner hour!!  

My neighbor supports Kerry and is so against Bush that when I was helping him with his garden I had to call "Bush Beans"  "Freedom Beans"  Now mind you I haven't even talked to my neighbor very much in the last year since whenever we did we got into knock down drag out fights over the Iraq War.  Him for, me against.  He just recently told me that he was wrong about the War and it was wrong for him to be in support of it.  Could have knocked me over with a feather!  What changed his mind?  I didn't quiz him thoroughly as I was in too much shock, but I think he is very upset that soldiers are dying so much right now in Iraq, I think he believes that it could turn into another Vietnam.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#25 Delvo

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 06:55 AM

Here's one I just had to laugh at. In some TV interview I don't know how long ago, Kerry was asked if he'd for for or against the 87 billion dollars to fund the work in Iraq. He said voting against it would be irresponsible and no Senator would think of abandoning the troops like that. Then he voted against it. :rolleyes:

It really says something about the supposedly mean nasty nature of Bush's "attack" ads when Kerry manages to be harsher on himself than Bush is.



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