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School children plan murder

Children Violence Schools Montana 2004

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#1 Shalamar

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:10 PM

Quote

Associated Press
FORSYTH - Two 8-year-old boys and an 11-year-old schoolmate were arrested after they buried a loaded handgun in a playground sandbox and plotted to shoot and stab a third-grade girl during recess, authorities said Thursday.

Sheriff Tim Fulton said the boys told investigators they intended to harm the young girl because she had teased two of them.

The plot was uncovered Wednesday morning when another student alerted school officials, said Michael Hayworth, the Rosebud County attorney.

The gun, a .22-caliber revolver, had two bullets in it, Hayworth said. School Superintendent Dave Shreeve said a box of bullets also was found nearby.

This is just one incident of a seemingly growing trend, and it disturbs me deeply. Where have we, the older people gone so wrong that children barely 10 years old thing this sort of think is acceptable/right/ however you want to phrase it.  It seems to me we have abrogated our responsibilities to the future so badly.

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Edited by Shalamar, 18 March 2004 - 04:11 PM.

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#2 silverwind

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:28 PM

This is....beyond disturbing.  There is something *seriously* wrong in any culture where desire to harm others is learned so young :(

This part disturbs me too:

Quote

The sheriff said one of the 8-year-olds apparently brought the gun from home.

Where the HELL was this gun sitting where an 8-year-old had access to both it AND its ammo? :angry:
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#3 Godeskian

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:33 PM

Blink

so what caused these kids to decide murder was a good idea,

and waht can be done to make sure the parent gets a reckless endangerment charge slapped on him for leaving a gun and ammunition about where an 8 year old can find it.

#4 Shalamar

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:37 PM

I just heard about this on the news while I was running errands, came home and looked around to see if it was true.

I hope all said parents get charges placed on them. I am all for guns, but leaving them there a child can get there hands on them is something I disapprove of completely.  I was taught by my parents how to handle guns, but never anything resembling that it was okay to take them out and plan a murder with them!
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#5 shambalayogi

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 06:38 PM

where is this??  I can't identify Forsyth from this article... STATE? COUNTRY????
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#6 Shalamar

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 06:43 PM

My appologies,  Forsyth is in Montana
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#7 shambalayogi

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 06:51 PM

thanks, Shal. Actually, from the comment about the gun being around and the child picked itup I thought it might be something like Montana.
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#8 Delvo

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 08:40 PM

Shalamar, on Mar 18 2004, 03:08 PM, said:

Where have we, the older people gone so wrong that children barely 10 years old thing this sort of think is acceptable/right/ however you want to phrase it.
Ironicly, I believe it's a woeful excess of pacifism. Kids are taught to wussily back down and give in and run for adult help at the least sign of trouble with other kids, and the trouble-makers are never held responsible. This quite simply stands no chance of working. All this does is encuorage the aggressive kids to keep it up and teach the victims that victimhood is their proper role in life and only they, not the aggressors, will ever be restricted or disciplined. And that keeps the tension constantly increasing with no outlet until it creates an outlet of its own.

#9 Rommie's Ronin

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 08:49 PM

BUT...at least they aren't toting AK-47s and helping overthrow governments, like they did in Liberia or Haiti.

Still, it is chilling. :(
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#10 prolog

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 10:59 PM

Delvo, on Mar 19 2004, 01:38 AM, said:

Ironicly, I believe it's a woeful excess of pacifism. Kids are taught to wussily back down and give in and run for adult help at the least sign of trouble with other kids, and the trouble-makers are never held responsible. This quite simply stands no chance of working. All this does is encuorage the aggressive kids to keep it up and teach the victims that victimhood is their proper role in life and only they, not the aggressors, will ever be restricted or disciplined. And that keeps the tension constantly increasing with no outlet until it creates an outlet of its own.
I normally don't agree with you, but I think you're right.  What happens when a kid goes to an adult, and the adult who's supposed to give a damn and help, doesn't?

#11 Morrhigan

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 11:35 PM

I think the problem is that children aren't being taught how to resolve their problems. Let's face it, running to teacher or to mommy when someone's bullying you either gets a response like "just ignore them," or else the parent takes over dealing with the problem instead of helping the child learn how to deal with it themselves. Add to this our popular media, in which the "bad guys" are most often defeated by being killed or beaten up... now, I'm not jumping on the "TV is evil" bandwagon. What I'm saying is that if a child isn't learning the conflict resolution skills s/he needs from a healthy source (parents, teachers, good role models, relatives, etc.), then s/he will learn them from whatever is available. And that most often means the media.

Then, there's another factor... some parents don't just neglect to teach their child non-violent means of solving problems. Some parents (by the examples they set as well as the things they say) teach their children that violence is the answer. How many parents say things like this: "If that son-of-a-bitch doesn't shut his dog up, I'm gonna get out my rifle and shut it up for him!" or even unthinking, common things like: "Next time someone calls me a @#!%, I'm going to beat the sh*t out of 'em!" How about the parents that scream obscenities at their kids' sporting events? And then there are the ones who get into drunken brawls, or slap their spouse around, beat their kids, bully their neighbors.

Preventing children from thinking that killing is okay has to be a conscious choice on the part of parents, teachers, family, and the entire community. It doesn't just magically happen. Children have to be taught basic human connections, like how to empathize with other people. They have to be taught the social skills needed to deal with other people, like how to set boundaries for themselves, how to resolve conflicts effectively, how to interact with human beings in a healthy manner. I think that this starts with modeling that behavior in the way we treat the children, themselves.

But that's just my take. :p
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#12 Anakam

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 11:50 PM

:Oo:

And people wonder why I'm afraid of all these adult students I have to say 'no' to each day that get ticked at me?  :wacko:  Sheesh, no interaction allowed with other people now.... you might cause offensensitivity or something..... EVERYTHING must be taken seriously till something gets irrevocably screwed up, and it's all MEEEEEE me me me me.... duh, each person is perfect and everybody else is really wrong..... :grr:
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#13 Shalamar

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 03:38 AM

I agree completely Morrhigan, very well said and I think that it is one place we have very much failed.  I also agree with Delvo.
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#14 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 09:34 AM

As a mom who regularly confronts the problem of bullies in school - it is a very challenging issue.  On the one hand, you want to teach your child to stand up for himself.  On the other - you watch these kids, with very little going for them in the way of opportunity, already behind the 8 ball academically, already labelled as "behavioral problems" by the school system, seeking to draw your child into their world by inciting them to fighting.  You know that the consequence will be that your child will be suspended/punished/expelled same as the kids who created the problem. You KNOW that ultimately, deep down, that's what the bully is hoping for - an opportunity to ruin your kid's opportunity.  And you feel hogtied.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

Sunsport speaks up for himself well.  But he doesn't fight (not to mention that he's smaller and younger than all of his classmates), and he does tell the teacher when he has to.  But there are days when I wish I could just say to him "slam your fist into his face - that will end the bullying."  But I don't, and I can't because there is no structure supporting the idea of "self-defense" in the schools.

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#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:32 AM

I agree with Morrhigan, shocking as that is.

However...while what these kids were planning was wrong...they are not the only ones at fault, nor are their parents the only ones at fault.

The girl who teased them is also at fault, as are her parents and the school teachers. The girl's parent should've taught her better social skills, and that teasing or picking on people is wrong. And where the frell were the school teachers while this was happening?

I'm not trying to condone what these kids were planning, but there is only so much teasing/bullying, ect that a person can take. Sooner or later they will reach their breaking point, and when that happens...It usually is violent.

All the rage, anger, feelings of helplessness come boiling to a head and they literally snap.

Are they to blame? Perhaps. But, IMO, the ones more at fault are the ones who teased, and the teachers that allowed it to happen in the first place.
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#16 Godeskian

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:34 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Mar 19 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

All the rage, anger, feelings of helplessness come boiling to a head and they literally snap.
you have no idea how true i know this to be

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#17 G1223

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:48 AM

The kids who did the planning need to have the full attention of the law.

The parents of these children need to be checked six ways to sunday with an exam that would make a ruthless auditor of the IRS proud and the scope and reach.

The Child who did the teasing? Needs talked with and punishjed  if there is indeed a bullying aspect to their behavior. This Child's parents? I think is a bit reaching.

As to the gun the question would be how accessible was it. laid out under a bed or in a shoe box and placed on the floor of a closet yeah then it was easily accessable.  But if it was placed in a locked box  and the kid got hold of the key or a gun safe or even just a reasonably secured gun cabinet I'd question the parents being charged with wreckless behavior.

If this were a day to day thing I'd agree we have a dire problem but this is a group of kids a total of four who got out of control. I agree it merits great deals attention at least the action of the three who plotted to kill  the fourth.  But realize kids get through this and worse (The drug dealing friend and saying no to an offer of a free try)and come out alright.

#18 Mikoto

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:54 AM

Right on LotS, what Cyberhippie said.

It really does happen like that, but still, planning to murder someone is quite extreme though.
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#19 Norville

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 11:07 AM

Quote

Quote

All the rage, anger, feelings of helplessness come boiling to a head and they literally snap.

you have no idea how true i know this to be

Same here. I was considering a longer post, but had no idea how to make it "appropriate"... let me just say that I must've been raised right, because my school years were hell, but I never took my rage out in school shootings or burning anything down. Which isn't to say that I didn't have some pretty violent fantasies of how satisfying it would be to get revenge... but I kept them to myself. So I have a history of depression instead of a criminal record -- could be worse...
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#20 G1223

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 11:08 AM

What did she say or do to tease them? I mean she was 8 to 9 yrs of age? I mean it could be she did not like the one boy showing he liked her and said something in a smartass way to tell him to stop?



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