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Soldiers. Noble Warrior and Soulless Pawn.

Soldiers Noble Warrior Soulless Pawn Culture War

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#41 the 'Hawk

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Posted 12 April 2004 - 09:44 PM

This thread was good for nothing when it was started. Can't we just firmly establish that no good can come of it, and collectively ignore it? Out of respect for those members of our community who have served --or do serve-- and deserve better than to be insulted by this thread's continued presence at the top of OT because people keep posting in it? Like, I'm all for a consideration of soldiers and their role, but just not in this thread.

Just a thought. Out of respect, I ask.

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#42 Psyche

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 01:15 AM

id just like to point out one thing.

my brother joined the army (sure, we may be canadians, but they're still soldiers) almost two years ago. it had been a lifelong dream of his to be in the army, serving and protecting his country.

he never got past his second chunk of training. was it because the people he lived with her soul-less and unhuman? no. it was because he couldn;t put an earthly institution above God.

tell me now, how someone who is soul-less and unhuman could give up a lifelong dream because he bleieved so strongly in his religion?

#43 Spacekiddy

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 04:04 AM

I know Fade's been suspended but he (?) will be back, right? So he'll be checking in on this thread even if he won't post in it any longer... and this post has seriously, uh, annoyed me so i need to say something, and i thought maybe a non-religious viewpoint might be slightly different, but first a warning.

I can't put anything more eloquently than anyone else already has, this is just my two cents (or pence, rather  :blush: )

As someone who's against war since it will inevitably involve the death of people who are dear to somebody i completely support soldiers. May sound a bit weird but its true. They are doing what they've been told, and why this might not always be (in my opinion) right, lime My Lai which i've been studying in history, those soldiers still have souls for hecks sake. I saw the documentary made many years after (Four Hours in My Lai) and many of the soldiers that carried that out were distraught over what they had done. If they didn't have souls then they wouldn't be able to feel. They'd just be walking empty shells.

During WW2 not all of those Nazi soldiers were there willingly (sure some were too) -the SS and Hitler threatened to kill their families if they didn't join.
Infact, i don't really think i can argue that Hitler didn't have a soul, though i think he was the closest thing to evil in a long time. But who is it that has the power to take away a persons soul? Certainly not me. Hitler was the product of a bitter life of disappointments, let downs, the Treaty of Versailles and his own prejudices.

So, moving on from my history lessons (never though they would come in handy) i was wondering if anyone here could kill someone? I know i could -if anybody hurt my family in a serious way i can't say what i'd do but i would not be a happy kid. And i would never sign up to the army to do it.

Right, well i'm leaving before i make any less sense that i already do...
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#44 Shalamar

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 04:38 AM

SpaceKiddy Writes:

Quote

i was wondering if anyone here could kill someone? I know i could -if anybody hurt my family in a serious way i can't say what i'd do but i would not be a happy kid. And i would never sign up to the army to do it.

SpaceKiddy- that is a question that each of us has to determine for themselves.  And  I feel that it would come down to the circumstances involved at the time.  

In a perfect world we would never have- to because the instances that make us have to make that decission would never occur. However we don't live in a perfect world and humans aren't perfect.

Could I kill - if the circumstances warrent it. For me the answer is yes.

I don't support war either - I don't think that any rational person does - war for war's sake - but I do believe that there is such a thing as a 'just war' ( see Thomas Aquinas ) ...Here in the States all our Military Academies try very hard to instill in our future officers  the  principles I quoted in an earlier post:

Quote

The Naval Academy has a deep and abiding commitment to the moral development of its midshipmen and to instilling the Naval service core values of HONOR, COURAGE, and COMMITMENT. The goal of the character development division is to integrate the moral, ethical, and character development of midshipmen across every aspect of the Naval Academy experience. The integrated character development program is the single most important feature that distinguishes the Naval Academy from other educational institutions and officer commissioning sources.


"To educate, train, and inspire the Corps of Cadets so that each graduate is a commissioned leader of character committed to the values of Duty, Honor, Country; professional growth throughout a career as an officer in the United States Army; and a lifetime of selfless service to the nation."


"Our Core Values, Integrity first, Service before self and Excellence in all we do, set the common standard for conduct across the Air Force. These values inspire the trust which provides the unbreakable bond that unifies the force. We must practice them ourselves and expect no less from those with whom we serve."

Yes there are failures, like Mai Lai, that you spoke of above, but they are the exception rather than the rule.  As I said earlier we are failable, and flawed, and quite capable of horrors, but does that make us souless?  I don't think so either.
The three most important R's
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#45 parisindy

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 04:10 PM

I was in the military for Two years...

My friend had this yellow tabby cat. I only met him once. He had to be put to
sleep the other day. I cried for 1/2hour.

Yup, that's me the soulless warrior.

Frell, i swerve for gophers on the highway


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#46 Mary Rose

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 04:19 PM

I love my country's military.  I am proud of it.  Anyone who served should be proud because service is a noble thing.  

Thank you to all vetrans past and present.  I, for one, love you all.
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#47 Spacekiddy

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 05:26 PM

parisindy, on Apr 13 2004, 10:08 PM, said:

My friend had this yellow tabby cat. I only met him once. He had to be put to
sleep the other day. I cried for 1/2hour.

Yup, that's me the soulless warrior.

Frell, i swerve for gophers on the highway
Oh no! Was that one of the friends pets you were talking about in the 'ward? {{{{paris}}}}
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#48 parisindy

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 06:50 PM

no but there are a lot of sad things going on... i can count five pets that have gone on...this month alone...i don't know what's going on. :cry: (paris huggles her uber old kitty)


(((sk)))

Edited by parisindy, 14 April 2004 - 01:25 AM.

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       "Damn...that was fun!"
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#49 Shalamar

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 07:02 PM

{{{{{ Paris }}}}} I'm sorry to hear of your friends cat. I'm worrying about Ashley who's over 21 years old right now myself.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#50 Cait

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 08:39 PM

Robert Hewitt Wolfe, on Apr 12 2004, 12:43 AM, said:

I personally don't support the decision that put our professional men and women in uniform in Iraq.  But that's politics.  HOWEVER, I fully support our troops.  I deeply admire their dedication, commitment, and courage.  Why a war is fought and how a war is fought are two different matters.  While I may not agree with the WHY, I fully support our military in HOW they are conducting themselves in this battle.  Our soldiers are heroes, plain and simple.
This almost had me in tears, it so perfectly mirrored my sentiments on this war.  These brave people who risk so much....... one can only hope for inspired leadership to keep them as safe as possible.

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Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#51 parisindy

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 01:23 AM

Shalamar, on Apr 13 2004, 06:00 PM, said:

{{{{{ Paris }}}}} I'm sorry to hear of your friends cat. I'm worrying about Ashley who's over 21 years old right now myself.
(((shal!))) that's great your kitty is 21!! i hope she is doing well
Mine is 18 and i was worried. Now i have hope! :)

Edited by parisindy, 14 April 2004 - 01:24 AM.

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       "Damn...that was fun!"
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#52 Bad Wolf

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Posted 16 April 2004 - 04:15 PM

Quote

I personally don't support the decision that put our professional men and women in uniform in Iraq. But that's politics. HOWEVER, I fully support our troops. I deeply admire their dedication, commitment, and courage. Why a war is fought and how a war is fought are two different matters. While I may not agree with the WHY, I fully support our military in HOW they are conducting themselves in this battle. Our soldiers are heroes, plain and simple.

Leave it to Robert to sum it up so beautifully.  :love:
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