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A new economic reality:

Economy Finance Outsourcing 2004

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#1 emsparks

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 03:45 PM

Like it or not, and I donít, outsourcing and inexpensive foreign goods and services are here to stay, and will continue to proliferate. At some point and after much pain in North American, and later the European union, new lower labor wages will stabilize worldwide. As the older industrialized nations find their wage structures under attack, the effected workers turn to the cheaper imported products in an effort to survive thus continually feeding the cycle of decline.

What has to be intrinsically obvious is that the old supplier / consumer nation model that is still sighted as a justification for globalization, just doesnít work anymore. There is no longer any good or service that is a sole proprietorship of any one nation, nor is there any gold mine nation of unlimited customers thirsting for said products. No nation holds a manufacturing monopoly on any product. Factories and technologies have been for sometime going where the cheapest labor is, restricted only by the level of transport, and communications infrastructures available.

I have some ideas, but I would like to hear some of yours first, before I run my mouth any further.

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#2 HubcapDave

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 05:31 PM

Something that never seems to be talked about is that while the US does outsource jobs, we also insource them as well!

http://www.ofii.org/insourcing/

#3 emsparks

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 06:38 PM

^^^  In sourcing is talked aboutÖ There are two problems associated with Insourcing, first the foreign companies with plants here, have only replace a small fraction of the manufacturing jobs lost to cheaper products, produced in nationally subsidized factories over seas, for the last twenty years. AND the supply trains that support these factories, are for the most part, also over seas. In short using auto plants as a reference, we get to assemble some cars but we donít get to make the parts for that assembly. China is a good example, of subsidized factories, we buy goods produced by both prisoners in jails, and the Chinese Army.

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Edited by emsparks, 22 April 2004 - 06:40 PM.

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#4 StarDust

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Posted 22 April 2004 - 09:43 PM

There are a lot of difference between outsourcing and insourcing.

Most other countries are way more protectionist than we are, by orders of magnatudes.  There are several places I know of from work experience that in order for the American company to sell there they had to build a plant there.  In other cases, they just built a plant for PR with the community, or because they were selling there and though it wasn't required, it was helpfull.

Most of the countries creating jobs here are doing the same, they are creating jobs here to make SOME of what they sell here.

Most of this is reasonable.

What has happened now, what people refer to as outsourcing, is the shipping of jobs to India that have nothing to do with India, for example.  

Do you know that many US Companies that do tax returns for individuals are sending them to India to be done?  Yes, someone in India may be reading your returns.

Do you know that your MRI may actually be analized in India and the results sent back to your hospital.

Do you know that people in India are reviewing various legal issues.

Do you know that you local State Division of Unemployment is probably outsourcing to India?  There has been much on the news where people calling up couldn't get accurate and helpfull information because the were talking to someone in India.  Which is ironic because they obviously could have used the job themselves.

Anytime you call a helpdesk you have a better than 50% chance to be talking to someone in India.  They are now trying to teach them to speak American english (instead of British) with an American accent.

And we all know about the tech industry, white collar jobs made less than blue collar jobs.

Most of the jobs going to India are for American companies to produce an American product to be consumed by Americans.  Indians (and Irish and Isreal) are cheap labor that speak English.

This is far different than what has happened in the past, or what other countries are doing. None of them are doing this, most won't allow it.

When everyone is doing free trade, besides just us, we can talk about a global economy.

Edited by StarDust, 22 April 2004 - 09:45 PM.


#5 Godeskian

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 01:06 AM

The US practicing free trade? Don't make me laugh. Freer trade than most perhaps, but in the last decade or so there have been a number of large scale arguments (for instnace between various EU nations and the US) about american trade protectionism.

As far as outsourcing is concerned. I fail to see the problem with it, it's a global world these days, and this was a totally inevitable result of that. Frankll;y, anyone who turns round to say this is surprising just wasn't paying attention.

Most people aren't patriot enough to pay for the difference if they can get what they want cheaper from somewhere else. and as long as they can understand one and other, most people don't care if their helpdesk is in India, New York or Luton. As a helpdesk analyst myself, i know most of our customers just consider us 'the voice down the phone'

Edited by Cyberhippie, 23 April 2004 - 01:08 AM.

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#6 StarDust

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:26 AM

If someone wants to sell product in the US they don't have to build a plant here. When I was working for Lucent, there were several countries where they were forced to build plants in order to do business.  That isn't free trade.

As far as most of the 'high profile' cases I know about, they were because someone else was doing protectionism.  So we weren't going to allow X, until they allowed Y.  That's the way it should be and doesn't happen enough.

France doesn't have free trade.  Everything is setup to protect their culture.  Canada even has protectionism where their film/tv industry is concerned, and in a number of other areas as well.

And just because people saw it coming doesn't make it okay.

#7 Godeskian

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:41 AM

i never said anyone had to build a plant in the US to sell things, nor did i ever claim they weren't amongst the freeer economies, but a truly free trade? No, just isn't true.

As far as it not being right is concerned, i'm not even sure why you think it's right or wrong, would you please explain before i jump to an incorrect conclusion?

Edited by Cyberhippie, 23 April 2004 - 07:41 AM.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.




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