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Disrespect the Profession but not the Person?

OT Disrespect Person v Profession

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104 replies to this topic

Poll: Does Disrespect of the Profession = Disrespect of the person practicing it? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Does Disrespect of the Profession = Disrespect of the person practicing it?

  1. Yes (11 votes [23.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.91%

  2. No (32 votes [69.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.57%

  3. Undecided (3 votes [6.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.52%

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#21 sierraleone

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:41 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 23 2004, 07:52 PM, said:

Thank you 'Hawk.  Now, getting back to the issue that spawned this thread:  Inara.  We don't know that much about her past (damn you to hell Fox) but it seems clear to me that  she chose what she's doing and that she had to jump through lots of hoops to do it.  So, in the case of Malcolm Reynolds...seems to me that everytime he disrespects that choice he is disrespecting her.

So there!!!!!   :p~
A person can take offense when they shouldn't, and a person could mean to make offense towards both job and person when they shouldn't.

Heck, Mal also did it to a different degree to the Priest. Does he disrespect him as well?

Though I got the distinct impression he didn't like doctors, but was it doctors or the fact most of them were rich/alliance?

The human heart and brain are a mine-field of contradictions :p  :)

Edited by sierraleone, 23 April 2004 - 07:41 PM.

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Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
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#22 the 'Hawk

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 08:56 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 23 2004, 07:52 PM, said:

Now, getting back to the issue that spawned this thread:  Inara.
Wouldn't that properly belong in GMD, in your Mal thread, or a thread of its own? Especially since this thread isn't exactly spoiler space? And some of us haven't seen much of Firefly yet, but intend to see as much of it as they make (which better gorram well be a LOT more)?

:cool:
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#23 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 08:59 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 23 2004, 06:54 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 23 2004, 07:52 PM, said:

Now, getting back to the issue that spawned this thread:  Inara.
Wouldn't that properly belong in GMD, in your Mal thread, or a thread of its own? Especially since this thread isn't exactly spoiler space? And some of us haven't seen much of Firefly yet, but intend to see as much of it as they make (which better gorram well be a LOT more)?

:cool:
Well duhhhhhhhhh it IS in my Mal thread you silly big bird. :p
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#24 the 'Hawk

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 09:46 PM

^ Are you callin' me yellow, missy?  :suspect: ;)

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#25 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 09:48 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 23 2004, 07:44 PM, said:

^ Are you callin' me yellow, missy?  :suspect: ;)

:cool:
And if I am?????????  :p~
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#26 Kimmer

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:10 PM

What I needed was a "Yes, but not always" button.

There are some professions, that no matter the person, I wouldn't be able to respect them (drug dealers come to mind). But most professions have the "exception" - where you meet someone and like them IN SPITE of what they do.

Given the choices above, I voted yes.

#27 Peridot

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:36 PM

Handmaiden07, on Apr 23 2004, 07:17 PM, said:

Well, first of all, I don't think there's anything wrong with hate the sin love the sinner. 
There isn't anything wrong with it if one is talking about the perspective of the Creator.  

The problem comes in when someone asserts that individual people, or groups of people, are able to to the same thing.  And most human beings just can't manage it.  There's a very real psychological conflict created by the concept.


As to the topic---I don't know that I'd say that disrespect of a particular profession is equal to disrespect of the person.   But I think it would be hard to view any profession with disrespect, and not have that at least lessen one's respect towards the people who are members of that profession.

A person's profession is part of their life, their time, their identity.  It's a part of who one is.

Peridot

#28 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:38 PM

Peridot, on Apr 23 2004, 08:34 PM, said:

A person's profession is part of their life, their time, their identity.  It's a part of who one is.
Precisely!  :)
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#29 DWF

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:49 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 23 2004, 10:46 PM, said:

the'Hawk, on Apr 23 2004, 07:44 PM, said:

^ Are you callin' me yellow, missy?  :suspect: ;)

:cool:
And if I am?????????  :p~
Because there's a bullseye on your head, and hawks know how to glide. :lol:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

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#30 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:51 PM

And I know how to dodge.  What's yer point?   :angel:  :devil:  :angel:
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#31 DWF

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 10:53 PM

^^^LOL!!! :lol: :lol:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#32 Peridot

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:08 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 24 2004, 03:36 AM, said:

Peridot, on Apr 23 2004, 08:34 PM, said:



A person's profession is part of their life, their time, their identity.  It's a part of who one is.
Precisely!  :)
Yes....I just don't see it as something that can be separated out from the person.  To be honest, I've run into more than one situation in the past where someone showed disrespect for me as a person that I don't think would have occurred if there hadn't been already some degree of disrespect---or at least lack of respect---for my profession.

Oh....and I have it on good authority that the only thing that Hawk drops while gliding overhead is Coke... :D  :angel:

Peridot

#33 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:11 PM

Peridot, on Apr 23 2004, 09:06 PM, said:

To be honest, I've run into more than one situation in the past where someone showed disrespect for me as a person that I don't think would have occurred if there hadn't been already some degree of disrespect---or at least lack of respect---for my profession.
Thank you.  If I had a dollar for everytime someone (online and off) had decided to respond to a point I'd made with some derisive form of "this is not a court of law" I'd be a very wealthy woman.  :(

I'll get a Coke proof umbrella.
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#34 the 'Hawk

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:34 PM

Peridot, on Apr 24 2004, 12:06 AM, said:

Oh....and I have it on good authority that the only thing that Hawk drops while gliding overhead is Coke... :D  :angel:
Are you implying that I would drop Coke!?

NEVAH!

First the ridiculous allegations of my yellowness, and now THIS!? OUTRAGE! :p~

(I might drop in to steal Coke, however.... that's a different matter! And one that requires non-yellowness to accomplish well!)

:cool:
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#35 Peridot

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:35 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Apr 24 2004, 04:09 AM, said:

Peridot, on Apr 23 2004, 09:06 PM, said:

To be honest, I've run into more than one situation in the past where someone showed disrespect for me as a person that I don't think would have occurred if there hadn't been already some degree of disrespect---or at least lack of respect---for my profession.
Thank you.  If I had a dollar for everytime someone (online and off) had decided to respond to a point I'd made with some derisive form of "this is not a court of law" I'd be a very wealthy woman.  :(

No problem.   :)  

Frankly, one of the situations I ran into, while there was no personal risk involved, was really rather nasty....so I haven't forgotten it. :wacko:

And while I do think Handmaiden's example of the soldier and the pacifist is a good one, I think, honestly, that what we're looking at in that kind of a situation is where someone cares enough to overcome the disrespect towards another that is created by disrespect of their profession.

Peridot

#36 Bad Wolf

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:59 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 23 2004, 09:32 PM, said:

First the ridiculous allegations of my yellowness, and now THIS!? OUTRAGE! :p~
You should watch who yer stickin' that tongue out at sir.  You might get kissed. :p
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#37 QueenTiye

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 12:14 AM

Delvo, on Apr 23 2004, 05:39 PM, said:

That's completely different. A bit above there, y'all were talking about moral objections to the work, not a preference not to be in the same conditions yourself, and you were talking about professions that someone can only get into by choosing it and working toward it, not jobs that people end up in because they didn't get a better one, and which practically nobody could enjoy doing.

I don't think I've ever heard of anybody presuming garbagemen to be dirty, stinky, and/or foul, but I'll bet a great many would be dismissive of them as "failures at life" for having ended up in such an unenjoyable job that nobody would have ever chosen to pursue it through work and sacrifice.
It is.  But I went there because Lil's invocation of the Kaylee/Simon converstion invited it.  Simon expressed distaste for the lifestyle of those who worked in Serenity, and she took offense.  Well, I can understand her wanting the guy she's sweet on to fully appreciate everything about her, including her chosen profession, and the way she chooses to practice it, but to imply that he thinks less of her because he DOESN'T respect her profession or the way she practices it is just wrong - inherently unfair to Simon, who may see something else entirely in Kaylee that makes him think VERY highly of her (o.k. so, not so much with those two, but I'm in the hypothetical realm, and not REALLY talking about the show), just not the way SHE wants to be seen.  

And, on the subject of "failure at life."  I again disagree.  Lots of people are in professions that they would not have chosen for themselves in the first place.  But HOW they handle that set of circumstances, and HOW they come to be there makes a difference.

I know a few people who used to dig graves for a living.  It was, at that time of their lives, the only work they could get, because of havng screwed up their lives so much prior.  But note - they were getting these jobs on the UPSWING, not on the downswing.  And while I can't say that I think much of grown people digging graves, work that seems like teenager first job work or somesuch, I can say 100% that I have a great deal of respect for the people who were willing to take that kind of work and any other kind of work in order to exercise the virtues of hardwork, discipline, and integrity into their lives.  And I've seen some of these people go on from there to better professions.  AND, it absolutely is a part of them that they were once gravediggers.  They didn't get to be the people they are today without having first been the people they were then.

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#38 QueenTiye

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 12:16 AM

sierraleone, on Apr 23 2004, 06:46 PM, said:

I think also, that to say all of these people are bad because of their choosen profession, which I consider bad, is another horrible sterotyping process in and of itself.
Hey Twin! :)  You are saying the same thing I am, only from the reverse perspective.  You are saying that disrespecting people blanketly because of their profession is a form of stereotyping (I agree), which would mean that there IS such a thing as NOT disrespecting people blanketly because of their profession.

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#39 Bad Wolf

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 12:18 AM

Nope it doesn't work that way qt.  If it's wrong to cast aspersions on an entire profession then doing so is the same as casting aspersions on those who practice that profession.  Period.  :)
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#40 QueenTiye

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 12:25 AM

the'Hawk, on Apr 23 2004, 07:39 PM, said:

And it's really hard to divide the profession from the person. After all, any good professional will remember one mistake more than a thousand successes. They take those failures personally. Why should they not also take the harsh words of those who disrespect and criticize the profession just as personally?

:cool:
:-) Excellent post, Sir 'Hawk!  As it turns out, I agree.

That said, what I take personally is not the same as what you personally feel about me.  You may take it personally that I think that the modern profession of teaching is more about churning out corporate cogs than it is about instructing children, but you don't get to say that I disrespect YOU on account of that opinion.
#1 - you may NOT be one of the people who buys into the modern thinking.
#2 - you may DISAGREE that that is the case.
#3 - you may AGREE, and point out that education has always had the function of preparing people to live in the world they live in, and to function within society as one if its cogs.  And therefore you may feel that this is exactly what SHOULD be happening, and I'm off the wall for suggesting otherwise.  

In all of these scenarios, the issue at variance is not YOU, but what you do professionally.  And, it may very well be a sign of respect that I persist in bugging you about it - not believing that a guy like YOU could possibly lend your talent and reputation to the corporate machine! (All of this, btw, was hypothetical to make a point!)  You would certainly have the right to take it personally, because you are a human being, and as you stated, you've invested years of your life - made a commitment to this field.  But notwithstanding, that would still say nothing at all about my respect level for you.

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