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What is "The Way"?


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#41 Christopher

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 11:33 AM

DWF, on Mar 6 2004, 11:00 AM, said:

But how it not be? The stars are were all life began, so to follow a star means following the light, the truth, the Way. :yin-yang:
No, it doesn't.  Because the Way isn't about where you came from, it's about where you're going.  And it isn't about literally, physically chasing after some symbol, it's about pursuing ideals of behavior and morality and self-awareness.
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#42 DWF

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 12:18 PM

Christopher, on Mar 6 2004, 11:31 AM, said:

DWF, on Mar 6 2004, 11:00 AM, said:

But how it not be? The stars are were all life began, so to follow a star means following the light, the truth, the Way. :yin-yang:
No, it doesn't.  Because the Way isn't about where you came from, it's about where you're going.  And it isn't about literally, physically chasing after some symbol, it's about pursuing ideals of behavior and morality and self-awareness.
You missing my point, it's about both where you came from and where you're going. It's a symbol or all life coming the light, which is how John's Gospell starts out. Rev in that ep. also took on aspects of Peter Pan, he followed a star to a blue faire who made him more human.

Some of that falls back into what Zack said, about Rev and the other Magogs being more than what they were built to be.
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#43 Zanthra

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 07:42 PM

What do you mean by all life can from the stars.  Life came from our planet, the energy for life came from the stars.  In certain circumstances you would not require a star for life.

#44 DWF

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 07:47 PM

Zanthra, on Mar 6 2004, 07:40 PM, said:

What do you mean by all life can from the stars.  Life came from our planet, the energy for life came from the stars.  In certain circumstances you would not require a star for life.
And yet without the star, there'd be no planet, and no life, and when the star gets old enough and dies out, any life on Earth will also die. :yin-yang:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

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#45 Zoxesyr

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 08:11 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 6 2003, 06:47 AM, said:

While the different Andromeda writers had different ideas about Wayism, me and Ash always wrote Rev and the other Wayists as "Zen Jesuits."  Reading Ignatius Loyola and Tielhard de Chardin and watching movies like "The Mission" (the real inspiration for TDTTH) and "Black Robe" (which we always wanted to reimagine as a Rev Bem episode) provided grist for the mill.

Zack
Darn it, Zack!  You beat me to the post!   :p

I was going to comment that the "Way" is a fictional creation that borrows heavily from Zen Buddhism, Taoism, and western mysticism like Tielhard de Chardin, "Cloud of Unknowning" and "Course in Miracles".  It has a smattering of occultism, but I think that was added in later by other writers.  

I think the original writers did a good job of borrowing from all of these mystical traditions, because of how many interpretations people can come away with after discussing it.  As an example, look at the diversity of opinions about what the "Way" means on this thread.

However, Zack, I don't think you created "Space Jesuits" at all.  I think you created something more like "Space Benedictines" or "Cosmo Trappists".   :hehe:
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#46 Zanthra

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:07 PM

Not excatly true, If you were to have a system of moons rotating around a gass giant, and the core of the gas giant was hot enough to trasmit heat to the moon, there is a possibility that some bacteria could live on a planet/moon without a sun nearby.

The requirement we have on the sun is the energey that it releases.  With another source of energy as large as our sun, we could survive without the sun, assuming that it doesn't consume us as it dies and that we dont get bombarded with cosmic radiation when the solar wind dissapears.

I suppose tho, that you are suggesting that the sun is a [starts with an A means something like symbol/metaphorer], and that they are not useing it that he is returning to where he actually came from, or that what created us can change us?

Edited by Zanthra, 06 March 2004 - 10:10 PM.


#47 DWF

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:20 PM

^^^Actually it is true, it's estimated that when our sun becomes a red giant, it will engulf the Earth. And the Earth and the other planets in the solar system were spawned from the sun.
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#48 BR48

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:37 PM

Are you sure Earth came from the sun?  As I recall, the sun and planets all came from a huge cloud of gas and dust.

Quote

Not excatly true, If you were to have a system of moons rotating around a gass giant, and the core of the gas giant was hot enough to trasmit heat to the moon, there is a possibility that some bacteria could live on a planet/moon without a sun nearby.
I'm not sure about that.  I'd question whether you could actually form a gas giant with a core hot enough to radiate sufficient heat long enough for the moons to give rise to life.

#49 Christopher

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:48 PM

BR48, on Mar 6 2004, 10:35 PM, said:

Are you sure Earth came from the sun?  As I recall, the sun and planets all came from a huge cloud of gas and dust.
Yes, that's right.  Planets are a side effect of star formation, but they don't actually physically come out of a star.

Quote

I'd question whether you could actually form a gas giant with a core hot enough to radiate sufficient heat long enough for the moons to give rise to life.

If it were large enough, you probably could, but at that size and temperature it would be classed as a brown dwarf.

Anyway, I think the point DWF is trying to make is that all elements heavier than helium are formed either by fusion in stellar cores or (for elements above iron) by supernovae, and are distributed through space by supernovae.  So planets aren't directly spawned from their primary stars, but all planets and living things are made of atoms that were created inside stars.
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#50 DWF

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 10:48 PM

BR48, on Mar 6 2004, 10:35 PM, said:

Are you sure Earth came from the sun?  As I recall, the sun and planets all came from a huge cloud of gas and dust.

Quote

Not excatly true, If you were to have a system of moons rotating around a gass giant, and the core of the gas giant was hot enough to trasmit heat to the moon, there is a possibility that some bacteria could live on a planet/moon without a sun nearby.
I'm not sure about that.  I'd question whether you could actually form a gas giant with a core hot enough to radiate sufficient heat long enough for the moons to give rise to life.
The dust clouds gave way to the star clusters, which spawned the stars and the planets.

http://universe.gsfc...lifecycles.html

And it would depend on whether a moon might have the beginnings of life, like Jupiter's Europa, since it's frozen it's possible that after the ice melts, that some form of life could spring up, only a chance though, a slim chance.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#51 Orpheus

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Posted 06 March 2004 - 11:42 PM

Well, technically, the planets weren't "spawned from the sun". They were the bits that failed to fall into [what became] the sun in the first place, and which happened to accrete locally afterwards.

Had our sun failed to ignite (e.g. if it had been a brown dwarf like jupiter, powered by gravitational collapse, rather than fusion), Mercury might have evolved microscopic life under its infrared radiation, rather than being a baked husk well above the volatilization temperature of many elements, and the reactive range of many common reactive species.

Of course, had the sun fallen short of nuclear ignition, it's output would have been much less, and the longevity of its energy output (at any given threshold) would have lasted a brief fraction as long. Life might have begun to evolve, but I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for its changes -- unless it could evolve via yet-undreamt-of mechanisms to take adantage of cryogenic temperatures. Who knows what life might become in the regime of  superfluids and sumperconductors?


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