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American Businessman Executed In Iraq

Terrorism Iraqi Militants Businessman beheaded

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#41 jon3831

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 11:50 PM

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Josh: I don't think there is anything valuable in watching someone get his head cut off.

Maybe not, but it gives us some perspective on who the enemy really is.

The enemy is a group of individuals who show no compunction whatsoever toward hacking a man's head off in cold blood... and recording it for the whole world to see.

My response may be tainted by the anger I have right now, but personally? I think that if the media is gonna innundate us with pictures of the so-called torture at Abu Gahraib, they should innundate us with pictures of this.

That's my $.02, subject to change.

In the meantime, though? Rov, thanks for providing the link while you did.
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#42 Josh

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 11:54 PM

I think that if anyone had any doubts about who the enemy is, they have none now. They made their point quite clear.
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#43 G1223

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 11:58 PM

Also no one has called CBS and chastise them for showing the pictures of abuse. Even when the Army was asking them to consider being discreat about showing them as it  could led to what it did. people claiming to do it for revenge.

In fact folks have praised CBS for doing exactly what they have done.


So if the BS excuse that they did this for revenge of the jail abuses is true CBS got this man killed by airing the full arrange of the pictures.

I got $10 that CBS will not say  we are sorry our actionsthat led to this man's death but we will try to get his family to say they blame Bush for this.

I will give 2 to 1 and I do expect to be paid if they do not do so inside of a week.

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#44 Norville

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 12:12 AM

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There are young people here under the age of 18, plus anyone -- yes ANYONE -- just visiting this board (they don't need to be a member) can download this file. They do NOT need to see this.

*ahem* I don't think you want to hear what I have to say to being told what people "need" to see or not see. So I won't say it. I wasn't able to watch it, myself, but don't resent it being there to witness if one can endure it.

Quote

only give the location and password to those who you know to be over 18.

Hey, why does being over 18 make one more able to watch a throat-cutting and beheading? In a perfect world, no age would be appropriate to watch this. But just think about the over-18 limit -- some of these terrorists start *young*. Imagine what Middle Eastern kids are doing, that we try to shelter our children against even knowing about. Shouldn't we try to overprotect them, too, and prevent them from learning these things?

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I was horrified beyond description on 9/11/01 - but this is way beyond that.

No. No, it isn't. This isn't 3000 people dying and two huge buildings collapsing. The media decided to "protect" us against seeing the more-gruesome aspects of 9/11, but if they hadn't, there would have been even worse sights. Sights maybe as bad as this.

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Oh my God, that's one of the worst things I've ever seen!

I downloaded it, and couldn't face watching it, had it play in the background while my browser window blocked it -- it's one of the worst things I've ever *heard* (the screaming), when we get past the long, rambling statement. :barf:

How bizarre, a .wmv file that actually worked (both audio and video) on my Mac? I was hoping I'd only get audio, as has been happening lately...

Quote

While we all intellectually understand the enemy, I think it's valuable to see it for one's self. It IS a horrible link, and that's the point.

I agree that we need to know our enemy. Yes, it's horrible, but this is what these freaks *did* (and also did to Danny Pearl), and we should know that they do these things and will find any excuse for doing it.
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#45 Bad Wolf

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 12:15 AM

Belbo (and those agreeing) This part of ExIsle is one in which often uncomfortable topics get discussed.  I didn't notice you voicing any objections to posting links that depicted torture of Iraqi prisoners.  The thing about links is that you DON'T HAVE TO CLICK ON THEM.  And that's fine and dandy.  That doesn't change what happened.  I have to say that you're coming off as someone who doesn't mind candid portrayals of inhuman conduct so long as said conduct is directed at anyone but an American.

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#46 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:05 AM

Belbo, on May 11 2004, 11:16 PM, said:

Hey, leave Rov alone! He's taken a very brave stand against censorship by the pesky "media establishment" here by distributing a snuff movie. No doubt he'll favour us with some child pornography, too...Sheesh, saints preserve us from conservatives who're feeling victimised .....
Whoa! I would ask who the frell you think you are to even suggest Rov of being a distributor of child porn, but I really don't care who you think you are. Your statements are ignorant.

Rov and I, more often then not, disagree on many issues...but to accuse him of something like that is just wrong.

If you don't wish to see something like an innocent person being executed...well then don't click of the frelling link. Rov did put a warning in the post.

Edited to add: See, now you've made me agree with Lil.  ;)

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 12 May 2004 - 01:06 AM.

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#47 Cheile

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:34 AM

>.<  @#$@#$@%!!  the culture may be old but this is just further proof that it's WRONG.  we helped them get rid of a murderous dictator and his serial rapist sons....and this is their response?  freaks....

(note that i do NOT approve of the soldiers' actions towards the Iraqi POWs and hope that Rumsfeld does what he says he'll do and bust them to the highest degree--court martial and/or whatever they've in mind)

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#48 Godeskian

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:42 AM

{{{{ Rov }}}}

for all of it.

#49 Rommie's Ronin

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:55 AM

Rov, I'm not you (at least I don't think I am...), but if I were, I'd put the link back up and damn the consequences.
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#50 Shalamar

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 02:55 AM

I watched the video- I made myself do it just as I have made myself see the abuse pictures and other such things - because I felt I needed to see all sides of the picture so to speak. Some one has to witness it and stand and say NO this is wrong- this is Evil and loathesome and beyond inhumane. Wether it is the abuse of Iraqi prisoners or the savage beheading of an American prisoner.

Thank you Rov for posting that link.
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#51 Captain Jack

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 03:25 AM

What was done to the Iraqi prisoners is terrible, and leaves the United States embarrassed and looking very bad in the eyes of the world.  However, none were tortured or killed.

The men and women US soldiers who are over there are now in more danger than ever because of those damned pictures.  That is outragious!  We're screwed because of it, and a simple courtmartial doesn't seem like it would be enough for such a crime.

But this, the decapitation of an american who was there to BUILD, not destroy is so terrible, I am at a loss of words to describe it.  Those are not terrorists, those are demons.  They are simply minions of evil who find any excuse to kill another human being and s[read misery and tragedy everywhere they go. That is NOT the will of God.  God never said to kill thy neighbor, build bombs, and spread fear and destruction across the lands!  They enjoy killing, that's just it.  Terrorists are simply the filth of the earth, the the execution of that american alone proves that they are.

Simply horrid, and it's only going to get worse...  :(
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#52 Godeskian

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 03:33 AM

edited as i cannot find the link to substantiate my comment.

for what it's worth Akaras, i agree with you.

Edited by Cyberhippie, 12 May 2004 - 03:38 AM.


#53 Captain Jack

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 03:52 AM

If some one can PM me a link to see the video, I would appreciate it.
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#54 Kevin Street

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 04:50 AM

If you really want to see the video, Salon.com is hosting it on their site. But trust me on this, it's not worth it.

Basically, it shows a bunch of terrorists standing behind poor Nick Berg. He's dressed in an orange jumpsuit and looks terrified, they're all wearing masks and military style cammo. One of the terrorists goes on and on for several minutes in a foreign language, then they grab Berg, kill him, and hold up his severed head for the camera.

One more death in this ongoing atrocity, as the war in Iraq continues to feed the war on terror.

EDIT: In the New York Times article on Berg, they mention that the knife wielding killer in the video is supposed to be Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Al Qaeda's "top man" in Iraq, who has been linked to a number of bombings and other crimes since the invasion ended, and who was previously mentioned in this thread here on Ex Isle. But experts are saying that the voice on the video doesn't sound like al-Zarqawi's.

Edited by Kevin Street, 12 May 2004 - 05:33 AM.


#55 QueenTiye

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 08:22 AM

I will not watch this.  I was horrified just reading about it.  Having said that - I would rather that the link be password protected under a 18 and over disclaimer, rather than simply removed.  Thank you, Rov for your consideration for sensitivity toward the members of the board, and for your hosting of this footage - like or not - it is a historical archive and should not be buried.

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#56 MuseZack

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 09:16 AM

G1223, on May 12 2004, 04:56 AM, said:

Also no one has called CBS and chastise them for showing the pictures of abuse. Even when the Army was asking them to consider being discreat about showing them as it  could led to what it did. people claiming to do it for revenge.

In fact folks have praised CBS for doing exactly what they have done.


So if the BS excuse that they did this for revenge of the jail abuses is true CBS got this man killed by airing the full arrange of the pictures.

I got $10 that CBS will not say  we are sorry our actionsthat led to this man's death but we will try to get his family to say they blame Bush for this.

I will give 2 to 1 and I do expect to be paid if they do not do so inside of a week.

Any Takers?
Jon Stewart: Stephen, what do you think about this idea that we are hearing from Rumsfeld, and now Sen. Inhofe, that the press was somehow irresponsible for releasing these photos of abuse?

Stephen Colbert: Jon, I agree entirely with Secy Rumsfeld that the release of these photos was deplorable, but these actions of a few rogue journalists do not represent the vast majority of the American media.

Stewart: The journalists did something wrong?

Colbert: I'm just saying those journalists don't represent the journalists I know. The journalists I know love America, but now all anybody wants to talk about is the bad journalists--the journalists that hurt America.

But what they don't talk about is all the amazingly damaging things we haven't reported on. Who didn't uncover the flaws in our pre-war intelligence? Who gave a free pass on the Saddam-al Queda connection? Who dropped Aghanistan from the headlines at the first whiff of this Iraqi snipehunt? The United States press corps, that's who. Heck, we didn't even put this story on the front page. We tried to bury it on "60 Minutes II." Who's on that--Charlie Rose and Anglela Lansbury?

Stewart: Stephen, what do you think is at play here?

Colbert: Politics, Jon, that's what. Pure and simple. I think it's pretty suspicious that these tortures took place during a Presidential campaign. This is a clear cut case of partisan sadism. You know, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure those Iraqi prisoners want Bush out of office too. You know I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a pile of hooded, naked Iraqis has a job waiting for them in the Kerry Administration.

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#57 Rov Judicata

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 09:36 AM

Fallout in Iraq:

http://www.reuters.c...storyID=5119272

Quote

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.

Quote

"The Americans killed hundreds in Falluja in retaliation for the mutilation of the four Americans and now those people are killing an American in retaliation for the torture of prisoners," said Arkan Mohammad, a cleric at Baghdad University.

"Someone has to do something to stop the cycle of violence from going on and on."

Even in the Baghdad Sunni Muslim stronghold of Adhamiya, where there is fierce opposition to the occupation, many residents were appalled by the decapitation of Berg.

"We denounce this act. No-one can accept the killing of another human being in this horrible way," said Yassir Saleh, a 30-year-old barber. But he too pointed to a tide of violence that has swept the country since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

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#58 Rhea

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 09:43 AM

Reading the statement above makes me feel incredibly sad, because it sounds very little different from what I've said hundreds of times about the Arabs and the Israelis (or the Irish).  :pout:  :pout:
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#59 Anna

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 09:45 AM

MuseZack, on May 12 2004, 08:14 AM, said:

Stewart: Stephen, what do you think is at play here?

Colbert: Politics, Jon, that's what. Pure and simple. I think it's pretty suspicious that these tortures took place during a Presidential campaign. This is a clear cut case of partisan sadism. You know, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure those Iraqi prisoners want Bush out of office too. You know I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a pile of hooded, naked Iraqis has a job waiting for them in the Kerry Administration.
I was going along okay reading this interview until I got to here. It just sorta' took a sharp turn. Anyone care to explain this part to me?

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#60 G1223

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 09:56 AM

It's called an opinion which the daily show does a lot of and is about 60/40 on the left compared to the right on issues.
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