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Gay Marriage Legal In Massachusetts

LGBT Same Sex Marriage Massachusetts

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#81 Peridot

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 10:22 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on May 23 2004, 07:22 AM, said:

Peridot with all due respect and speaking as a woman who lives in the Gayest damned area of the country (the SF Bay Area) I think you are (obviously inadvertently, because I know you) muddying the waters.  If you think that people who want "Gay Marriage" are asking for their marriage to have a different name than those who simply "marry" you are simply wrong.  They don't want a ceremony called "gay marriage".  They simply want to be allowed to "marry" in the same way as any adult consenting heterosexual couple would marry if they so chose.
Errr....sorry I wasn't a little clearer there. :look:

No, I don't think gay and lesbian couples are looking to have a different name applied to their unions, but rather that this difference is going to be pinned on them whether that's what they wish or not.  The kind of scenario I'm envisioning is where fifteen years down the road, people are still referring to a legal union between two people of the same sex as a "gay marriage", rather than just as a "marriage".

What I'd really like to see happen legally is the creation of a term that encompasses both; that applies equally, and without qualifying adjectives, to both heterosexual couples and homosexual couples.   And that also applies equally whether a union has been blessed by clergy, so to speak, or not.  

I honestly don't think it's that I'm muddying the waters, but more that the waters on this issues are just plain muddy to begin with.   :blink:

Based on past conversations with friends, I think what same-sex couples are looking for when they seek to marry legally is to have a relationship into which they have put time, energy, love, commitment, and part of themselves, given the same respect and recognition as a heterosexual couples' relationship is given.  The legalization of the relationship is an affirmation of that relationship, as well as conferring the legal benefits of marriage.

I just really see the term "marriage" as being problematic, because it is a loaded term, for more than one reason, and in more than one way.  And I think many people will continue to qualify it, (as "gay marriage") and continue to set gay couples apart from straight couples.

Hope this makes a little more sense....I probably shouldn't have been posting at 2:00 am.... :blush:

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#82 Peridot

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 10:32 PM

Rhea, on May 24 2004, 03:47 AM, said:

I don't think gay folks would give a hoot in hell what we call it as long as what-ever-you-call-it gives everyone the same rights and benefits.
And as long as we really do use the same term for both kinds of unions.

Like I said, sorry to be unclear---it's  a complex issue. :look:

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#83 Anastashia

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 10:43 PM

Add to this the apparent prohibition of marrying couples not from Massachuetts as happened today with a couple from Maine. Apparently some officials with the legal right to perform marriages are ignoring this part of the law.
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#84 Broph

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 07:29 AM

Anastashia, on May 24 2004, 03:41 AM, said:

Add to this the apparent prohibition of marrying couples not from Massachuetts as happened today with a couple from Maine. Apparently some officials with the legal right to perform marriages are ignoring this part of the law.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say by this. There is no law in Massachusetts saying that you have to live in the state to be married in the state - that's what Romney is trying to get them to do, but it isn't the law. What Romney has said is that people from other states, which don't recognize gay marriages, shouldn't come to Massachusetts just to get around the laws of their own states.

What the clerks in towns like Provincetown have said is that they've never required proof of residency from heterosexual couples, so they're not going to start demanding them from gay couples.

#85 Rhea

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 03:09 PM

Peridot, on May 23 2004, 07:30 PM, said:

Rhea, on May 24 2004, 03:47 AM, said:

I don't think gay folks would give a hoot in hell what we call it as long as what-ever-you-call-it gives everyone the same rights and benefits.
And as long as we really do use the same term for both kinds of unions.

Like I said, sorry to be unclear---it's  a complex issue. :look:

Peridot
We're in complete agreement, then.  :cool:  :cool:
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#86 Rhea

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 03:10 PM

Broph, on May 24 2004, 04:27 AM, said:

Anastashia, on May 24 2004, 03:41 AM, said:

Add to this the apparent prohibition of marrying couples not from Massachuetts as happened today with a couple from Maine. Apparently some officials with the legal right to perform marriages are ignoring this part of the law.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say by this. There is no law in Massachusetts saying that you have to live in the state to be married in the state - that's what Romney is trying to get them to do, but it isn't the law. What Romney has said is that people from other states, which don't recognize gay marriages, shouldn't come to Massachusetts just to get around the laws of their own states.

What the clerks in towns like Provincetown have said is that they've never required proof of residency from heterosexual couples, so they're not going to start demanding them from gay couples.
Actually, that's not what Romney said. He asked for copies of all marriage licenses issued to gay couples. He wanted to prevent licenses from being issued to out-of-state couples at all.

There was a great protest, and that didn't go over too well.
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#87 Broph

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 05:56 AM

Rhea, on May 24 2004, 08:08 PM, said:

Actually, that's not what Romney said. He asked for copies of all marriage licenses issued to gay couples. He wanted to prevent licenses from being issued to out-of-state couples at all.

There was a great protest, and that didn't go over too well.
Apparently it is the law, but it's never really been enforced:

Quote

Winslow's advice signals a shift in the way Romney intends to enforce a 1913 law that bars out-of-state couples from marrying here if the marriage would be void in their home state. That law was designed to uphold other states' bans on interracial marriage.

http://www.boston.co...age_rule_eased/

So yes, that was what he was saying. He didn't want to get copies of their licenses - he didn't want them to be issued in the first place. However, as noted in that article, he has backed down from the position, so the point is moot.

Edited by Broph, 25 May 2004 - 06:22 AM.


#88 ArmourMe

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Posted 26 May 2004 - 11:38 AM

Peridot, on May 24 2004, 03:20 AM, said:

Based on past conversations with friends, I think what same-sex couples are looking for when they seek to marry legally is to have a relationship into which they have put time, energy, love, commitment, and part of themselves, given the same respect and recognition as a heterosexual couples' relationship is given.  The legalization of the relationship is an affirmation of that relationship, as well as conferring the legal benefits of marriage.

I just really see the term "marriage" as being problematic, because it is a loaded term, for more than one reason, and in more than one way.  And I think many people will continue to qualify it, (as "gay marriage") and continue to set gay couples apart from straight couples.

Hope this makes a little more sense....I probably shouldn't have been posting at 2:00 am.... :blush:

Peridot
As a bi woman who's been invested in Queer rights my whole adult life, I couldn't agree more.  The word 'marriage' needs to be left to the religious community.  

The really funny thing is, my sweetie and I will eventually want all of the protections afforded by legal union, but we disagree with the whole secular institutionalization of marriage.  We don't want a marriage - we want a civil union.  What will happen when we go down to the court house & say, "We want a civil union certificate.  We insist on the same rights to a secular marriage that a gay couple has."  :p



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