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Korean threatend with execution in Iraq

Iraq Iraqi Militants Terrorism Korean hostage al Jazeera TV

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#41 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 09:05 AM

Kevin Street writes:

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But that's the price we have to pay to be human. By contrast, animals exist in a perpetual state of grace, they never sin or do anything morally wrong (an animal can hurt you, but they really don't, can't, know any better) - but they can never do anything truly right either. They just survive.

Erm-why are you placing human qualities on other animals? Sin? Grace? Wrong? Right? Those are human things.  How do you TRULY know what other animals think?

That's being a bit presumptuous, don't you think?


:eh:

Edited by 2112st, 22 June 2004 - 09:07 AM.


#42 Godeskian

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 09:21 AM

In answer to Drew, regarding the apple and Mother Theresa

The apple, because the entire anology suggests that there is something wrong with gaining knowledge. That mankind erred when it learnt about good an evil as opposed to becoming smarter and learning about the world around them. Any belief system that makes knowledge of the world a sin, i have a problem with.

As for Mother Theresa,

In no specific order, she accepted over a million dollars from S&L criminal Charles Keating in exchange for her asking Judge Lance to show him some leniency. DA Paul Turley suggested she give the money back to the fraud victims that Keating had stolen it from, and she didn't. Accepting bribes is such an ethical and moral way of doing business don't you think?

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'We have drugs for people with diseases like leprosy. But these drugs do not treat the main problem, the disease of being unwanted. That's what my sisters hope to provide.'

Rather than spend the money on clinical care, she spent in on pursuing religious instruction to 'help the disease of being unwanted' by trying to convert the sick and the dying, rather than helping cure them, however if she should fall ill, she was always rushed to the best medical care centers her money could buy. Shame she didn't lavish such medical attention on her clinics.

In the book Missionary Position, by Christopher Hitchens, she explains that AIDS was Gods punishment for sexual immorality. Which is an abhorrent viewpoint given that it's just a disease.

Susan Shields, a former sister of Mother Theresa's, wrote an article for Free Enquiry magazine. In it she explains that Mother Theresa certainly didn't lack for money (which is exceedingly strange given the fact that she was always sending her sisters out to beg for money) for instance

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As a Missionary of Charity, I was assigned to record donations and write the thank-you letters. The money arrived at a frantic rate. The mail carrier often delivered the letters in sacks. We wrote receipts for checks of $50,000 and more on a regular basis. Sometimes a donor would call up and ask if we had received his check, expecting us to remember it readily because it was so large. How could we say that we could not recall it because we had received so many that were even larger?

so the money was there, however,

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Mother was very concerned that we preserve our spirit of poverty. Spending money would destroy that poverty. .....In Haiti, to keep the spirit of povery, the sisters reused needles untill they became blunt. Seeing the pain caused by the blunt needles, some of the volunteers offered to procure more needle, but the sisters refused.

Oh yeah, great teachings that. but then, given that Mother Theresa's self described three central tenets were Obedience to God, voluntary suffering, and that any attachment to people is  bad because it interferes with the love for God, this sort of abuses seem perfectly understandable.

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Our constitution forbade us to be for more than we needed, but when it came to begging, the millions of dollars accumalating in the bank were treated as if they did not exist.

Unless of course, Mother Theresa wanted her own health looked after. Then they did exist and were put to good use.

In case you are wondering. Ms Shields was a sister for over a decade.

I'm sure someone is going to turn round and say 'but she did good too' and i'm sure she did. However she isn't anywhere near the saint far too many people try and make her out to be. She appeared to be more worried about herself, and converting people, than about helping them, or she would have put those millions to better use than rotting in a bank account.

Edited by Cyberhippie, 22 June 2004 - 09:22 AM.


#43 the 'Hawk

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 11:57 AM

According to the BBC (which I'm going to watch right now), Arabic TV is reporting that the hostage has been beheaded.

#44 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:08 PM

the'Hawk, on Jun 22 2004, 04:55 PM, said:

According to the BBC (which I'm going to watch right now), Arabic TV is reporting that the hostage has been beheaded.
Aw...f**k.  :angry:  :glare:

If so, I'm sure it won't be long before images appear on the net.

:(

Edited by 2112st, 22 June 2004 - 12:10 PM.


#45 the 'Hawk

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:11 PM

^ Apparently there is a tape. I just watched the BBC newscast. It hasn't yet been released.

The footage of the hostage pleading for his life was agonizing. They showed that briefly.

How terrible for his family if this is true.

#46 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:23 PM

The beheading has been confirmed. :(

http://story.news.ya...raq_south_korea

BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!  :angry:  :crazy:  :glare:

Edited by 2112st, 22 June 2004 - 12:24 PM.


#47 the 'Hawk

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:24 PM

The BBC reports.

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Islamic militants in Iraq have beheaded a South Korean man they were holding hostage, al-Jazeera television reports. The Arabic satellite channel said it had received a video tape saying Kim Sun-il, 33, had been executed.

Kidnappers earlier demanded that South Korea end its military role in Iraq or else they would kill the translator. Earlier there had been signs of hope after mediators said a deadline for the execution had been extended following talks with the militants.

More soon.


#48 Godeskian

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:25 PM

no :(

#49 Guest-2112st-Guest

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 12:30 PM

http://apnews.myway..../D83C6L8G0.html

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CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - An Iraqi militant group has beheaded its South Korean hostage, Al-Jazeera television reported Tuesday. The South Korean foreign ministry issued a statement confirming the report.

Kim's body was found by the U.S. military between Baghdad and Fallujah, west of the capital, at 5:20 p.m. Iraq time, said South Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman Shin Bong-kil.

The South Korean embassy in Bagdad confirmed that the body was Kim by studying a picture of the remains it received by e-mail, Shin said.

"It breaks our heart that we have to announce this unfortunate news," he said.

:angry: :cry:  :glare:

#50 Caretaker

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 02:19 PM

http://story.news.ya...e_mi_ea/iraq_39

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BAGHDAD, Iraq - An Iraqi militant group has beheaded its South Korean hostage, Al-Jazeera television reported Tuesday, just hours after a go-between said the execution had been delayed and there were negotiations for the man's release.

The South Korean foreign ministry issued a statement confirming that Kim Sun-il had been killed but did not say he was beheaded.

Kim's body was found by the U.S. military between Baghdad and Fallujah, 22 miles west of the capital, at 5:20 p.m. Iraq (news - web sites) time, said South Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman Shin Bong-kil.

After news of Kim's death broke, South Korean television showed Kim's distraught family members weeping and rocking back and forth with grief at their home in the southeastern port city of Busan.

Edited by Caretaker, 22 June 2004 - 02:19 PM.


#51 Bad Wolf

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 02:28 PM

2112st, on Jun 22 2004, 10:21 AM, said:

The beheading has been confirmed. :(

http://story.news.ya...raq_south_korea

BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!  :angry:  :crazy:  :glare:
Ditto.  Sons of b*itches.   :glare:
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#52 Chipper

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 02:54 PM

*sigh*

I hope they burn in hell.
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

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#53 Drew

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 02:59 PM

Cyberhippie, on Jun 22 2004, 09:19 AM, said:

The apple, because the entire anology suggests that there is something wrong with gaining knowledge. That mankind erred when it learnt about good an evil as opposed to becoming smarter and learning about the world around them. Any belief system that makes knowledge of the world a sin, i have a problem with.
Most people would recognize that it wasn't knowledge itself that God was forbidding, but rather the knowledge of Good and Evil specifically. In other words, the perfected world was a place where people didn't know what evil was. Didn't know how to commit evil. Didn't even know that evil was possible. It had nothing to do with knowledge itself.

C. S. Lewis does a great job on this in "Perelandra," the best of his Space Trilogy, if you're interested.

But I imagine this is stuff for another thread.

In fact . . . I just started one in EtU.

Edited by Drew, 22 June 2004 - 03:07 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#54 Godeskian

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 03:19 PM

Drew, on Jun 22 2004, 08:57 PM, said:

Most people would recognize that it wasn't knowledge itself that God was forbidding, but rather the knowledge of Good and Evil specifically. In other words, the perfected world was a place where people didn't know what evil was. Didn't know how to commit evil. Didn't even know that evil was possible. It had nothing to do with knowledge itself.
let me turn that around for you. The perfect world was also a place where people didn't know what good was, didn't know how to do good, didn't even know that good was possible.

God didn't deny them just that knowledge, he denied them all knowledge because good and evil run through just about every invention ever made.

btw, as an aside, i noticed you didn't comment on my section about Mother Theresa, even after you specifically asked me to explain.

Edited by Cyberhippie, 22 June 2004 - 03:21 PM.


#55 Drew

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 03:27 PM

Cyberhippie, on Jun 22 2004, 03:17 PM, said:

Drew, on Jun 22 2004, 08:57 PM, said:

Most people would recognize that it wasn't knowledge itself that God was forbidding, but rather the knowledge of Good and Evil specifically. In other words, the perfected world was a place where people didn't know what evil was. Didn't know how to commit evil. Didn't even know that evil was possible. It had nothing to do with knowledge itself.
let me turn that around for you. The perfect world was also a place where people didn't know what good was, didn't know how to do good, didn't even know that good was possible.
Except that the same story declares that God made everything "good." So it was the "default setting."  :cool:

Quote

btw, as an aside, i noticed you didn't comment on my section about Mother Theresa, even after you specifically asked me to explain.

I don't have anything to add.  :cool:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#56 Godeskian

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 03:46 PM

Drew, on Jun 22 2004, 09:25 PM, said:

Except that the same story declares that God made everything "good." So it was the "default setting."  :cool:
okay, here's my paradox problem

God made everything Good.

So we are elft with one of two premises.

1. The devil was bad, and God lied about having made everything good, because if everything was good, then Lucifer wouldn't have been so jealous to go against him and ruin things for Adam and Eve

2. The devil was good, which means eating the apple was also a good thing (because everything was good) and God is evil for taking away their immortality because of a good act on Satan's behalf.

Either way, you can't start out with the premise of 'everything was good' without it having a few problems.

#57 Jid

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 03:57 PM

^ Unless you interject with the notion of "free will", which completely befuddles a lot of logical arguments ;)

-Jid, who spent an entire term in an arguing philosophy course on this and similar debates ;)
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#58 Rommie's Ronin

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 04:03 PM

Yep, he's dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2...tage/index.html

How typical of the radical mentality to not see past the end of their own nose.  This sort of behavior demonizes them, not makes them heroes.
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#59 Godeskian

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 04:09 PM

Jid, on Jun 22 2004, 09:55 PM, said:

^ Unless you interject with the notion of "free will", which completely befuddles a lot of logical arguments ;)

-Jid, who spent an entire term in an arguing philosophy course on this and similar debates ;)
you know, i've spent the odd hour or several erm...debating the subject as well.  ;)

You want to start a seperate thread to discuss this?

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#60 Anna

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 05:02 PM

2112st, on Jun 22 2004, 11:06 AM, said:

the'Hawk, on Jun 22 2004, 04:55 PM, said:

According to the BBC (which I'm going to watch right now), Arabic TV is reporting that the hostage has been beheaded.
Aw...f**k.  :angry:  :glare
Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction. Followed by more expletives and ugly comments about the terrorists' parentage.

My prayers for Kim Sun-il and his family. NO family should have to go through this.

Anna

Edited by RPITA, 22 June 2004 - 05:04 PM.

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