Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Kerry Voters . . . tell me why?

Election 2004 John Kerry

  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 02:47 PM

Okay, Kerry voters. Please explain why you'll be voting for the man. Positive reasons only, please. "Because he isn't George Bush," while probably the most common reason, is off the table for the purposes of this discussion. I want to know why you think he's the person best suited to lead this country domestically and internationally. Any takers? :cool:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#2 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 02:53 PM

I think he is the best person of the two choices presented to lead this nation.  I think that it is important for this country to repair its relationship with the UN and I think Kerry will do the better job of this out of the two candidates.  There are some links I once had about Kerry's plans to handle issues like job outsourcing and I'll try to find them again.
Posted Image

#3 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,653 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 02:53 PM

My only reason is "not Bush." I firmly believe that the Bush gang, esp. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Ashcroft are set to destroy everything I believe America should stand for.  There are plenty of Republicans I might vote for over Kerry, but not this crew.

I was and still am a John Edwards supporter because he takes sensible centrist stands domestically and would probably listen to people that know what they are doing in the military on fighting terrorism.

Cardie
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#4 Consubstantial

Consubstantial

    Paradox by Incongruity

  • Islander
  • 851 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:07 PM

Drew,

Your question, along with the limits you attempt to impose, makes a whole lot of assumptions and disregards the actual state of politics in America.  Choosing the "the person best suited to lead this country domestically and internationally" is not an option in the American political system.  Americans get two bad choices and often find themselves in a position of attempting to select the lesser of two evils.  The question for many of us is not "who is best suited" but "who will do the least harm."

While I would say that neither man is best suited to run the country, in an attempt to play by your rules, I will say that I intend to vote for Kerry in the hope that he will do less harm than the only other choice available to me.  Four years has shown the extent of the harm Bush has done and still intends to do.
From the start, our terms jump to conclusions--Kenneth Burke

#5 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:11 PM

Consubstantial, on Jun 21 2004, 03:05 PM, said:

Your question, along with the limits you attempt to impose, makes a whole lot of assumptions and disregards the actual state of politics in America.
The only limit I set was that I don't want to hear why people were going to vote "against" Bush. I want to know why they were going to vote "for" Kerry.

Quote

Choosing the "the person best suited to lead this country domestically and internationally" is not an option in the American political system.  Americans get two bad choices and often find themselves in a position of attempting to select the lesser of two evils.  The question for many of us is not "who is best suited" but "who will do the least harm."

Granted.

Quote

I will say that I intend to vote for Kerry in the hope that he will do less harm than the only other choice available to me. Four years has shown the extent of the harm Bush has done and still intends to do.

In other words, you're voting "against" Bush, rather than for Kerry. Which I suspected would be the most common reason.  :cool:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#6 Kevin Street

Kevin Street
  • Islander
  • 6,256 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:23 PM

No, it sounds like she's voting for Kerry because he's best choice available out of a bad lot.

Lil said:

There are some links I once had about Kerry's plans to handle issues like job outsourcing and I'll try to find them again.

His website has an issues section that lists the Kerry positions on various things. I'm not sure where the outsourcing part is, but it's probably in the Restoring Jobs and Rebuilding Our Economy section.
Per aspera ad astra

#7 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:25 PM

Kevin Street, on Jun 21 2004, 03:21 PM, said:

No, it sounds like she's voting for Kerry because he's best choice available out of a bad lot.
No, she says she's voting for him because she "hopes he will do less harm." That's a "not Bush" vote.  :cool:
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#8 Consubstantial

Consubstantial

    Paradox by Incongruity

  • Islander
  • 851 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:41 PM

Kevin got it right Drew.

Kerry is the best choice out of the two options I have because I hope he will do less harm.  You asked why Kerry and for a positive reason.  That's what I gave you.  If Cheney were running instead of Bush, I'd still be voting for Kerry; and I'd still be doing it for the "less harm" reason.  But if Cheney were running, you couldn't twist my words into "not Bush."
From the start, our terms jump to conclusions--Kenneth Burke

#9 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:48 PM

Well, in addition to all the reasons everyone else has cited, (which I agree with) I am most likely to vote for Kerry because... I think the Republicans will maintain their majority in Congress.  And, I want the opposite party in the White House.  

History has shown that there is more fiscal responsibility in government spending when one party does not dominate both branches of government.  I may vote for Kerry for a bottom line fiscal reason, but I admit I am still undecided, just leaning towards Kerry.  (Of course the *leaning* increases each day)

~ Cait

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#10 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 03:51 PM

Kerry also seems like he'll be more fiscally responsible than the current administration.
Posted Image

#11 Drew

Drew

    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 04:01 PM

Consubstantial, on Jun 21 2004, 03:39 PM, said:

If Cheney were running instead of Bush, I'd still be voting for Kerry; and I'd still be doing it for the "less harm" reason.
You still haven't told me why Kerry gets your vote. All you've said is that you want someone who'll do "less harm" than Bush (or Cheney). You say: "Four years has shown the extent of the harm Bush has done and still intends to do." And again, that's not about Kerry either. What convinces you that Kerry will do "less harm" (whatever you believe that harm to be)?

Edited by Drew, 21 June 2004 - 04:02 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#12 Consubstantial

Consubstantial

    Paradox by Incongruity

  • Islander
  • 851 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 04:18 PM

You want an example of why I think Kerry will do less harm.

Okay, here are two.  

I think Kerry is more intelligent than the other option.  I don't think Kerry is a genius or even brilliant; but of the two choices, I think he is smarter.

I also think Kerry is more ethical than the other option.  Note, I said ethical, not religious.  Because of his ethics, I suspect that Kerry will be less likely than the other option of attempting to force the tenets of his religion on the entire country.  I won't bother to list the unethical acts I attribute to the other candidate because that candidate is not the focus of this thread.

These are purely my perceptions; they are not part of either candidates' platforms.
From the start, our terms jump to conclusions--Kenneth Burke

#13 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:03 PM

All of what Connie and Lil said (what a suprise!) and I'll raise them this:

I've watched Kerry in Senatorial hearings for years, and I believe he is incapable of blindly charging down a particular path, totally ignoring facts at his disposal, because his "gut" tells him he's made the right move. And I believe completely that if it could be proved to him that a particular action turned out to be a huge mistake he'd do something to get us out of it instead of maintaining the sky is green, carrots are brown and everything's hunky dory.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#14 QuiGon John

QuiGon John

    Gone

  • Islander
  • 4,158 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:18 PM

Couldn't the opposite question also be posed?

I will grant that Bush seems to have somewhat more support from his partisans than Kerry has from his; but there also seems to be a general consensus that the two choices are... not entirely inspiring.  Sure, a good many Kerry votes might be "Not-Bush" votes in truth, but I'm willing to bet that a fair number of Bush votes will be "Not-Kerry" votes, as well...

As to why I (sort of, at the moment, when I'm not planning to run off establish a small island nation with myself as benevolent dictator-for-life) lean slightly toward Kerry:

Because I believe he'll represent America in a more positive light to some of our offended allies, and also because I see him as more responsible overall and unlikely to start World War III.

And because I believe it's high time we, as a nation, voted in a President who looks like Herman Munster under the influence of severely depressant medication.

Because when you get down to it, making fun of our Chief Executive is a powerful expression of what America is all about.  ;)

#15 Jid

Jid

    Mad Prophet of Funk

  • Islander
  • 12,554 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:33 PM

After reading Skyler's post, I have a sudden urge to sing America the Beautiful ;)
cervisiam tene rem specta

#16 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,137 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:53 PM

He seems the more fiscally responsible candidate, and I echo the sentiment that different parties controlling the white house and congress = a good thing.

Bush is a social conservative and fiscal liberal, so he's basically the antithesis of my political philosophy.  Kerry, while still a bit too fiscally liberal for my tastes, seems at least a little more moderate in his fiscal and economic policies than the present administration, and has a more liberal stance on social issues.

Specifically, I support his rollback of Bush's tax cuts on $200k+ earners, and shifting the tax burden upward rather than downward. (I've never been a fan of Reaganomics).  I also support his "Earned Legalization" plan to legalize immigrant workers who've been gainfully employed for a certain period and complete sufficient background checks and some other criteria.

I also support Kerry's College Opportunity Tax credit and his Service for College plans.

I disagree with him on universal health care, and expanding Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid . . . but it's not a deal-breaker.

Like many others, my ideal presidential candidate out of the original pool of hopefuls was Edwards.  I don't like Kerry quite as much, but he'll do.  Although, I wouldn't be upset at all if Edwards was tapped to be Kerry's running mate.

-Nick

#17 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:58 PM

I also don't expect Kerry will try to amend the constitution to cater to homophobia.  In fact, on that issue ALONE I'd vote for him.
Posted Image

#18 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 08:58 PM

I don't see Kerry as the lesser of two evils at all.  While he wasn't my first choice for the nominee and has some things about him that I don't like (and what politician doesn't?), he's also got a lot to recommend him, like:

-A heroic war record (which bodes well for a President who may need to make difficult decisions in a heartbeat), followed by a stint as a passionate but responsible opponent of the Vietnam War.

-A thirty year record of public service, from his well-regarded stint as a prosecutor to his career in the Senate.

-A progressive record on many issues I care about, from the environment to raising fuel standards to boosting the minimum wage and advocating for workplace safety.

- A history of forging alliances across party lines on important issues, such as his historic trip to Vietnam with Senator McCain to close out the POW/MIA issue and begin normalizing relations with Vietnam.

- A key figure in investigating the Reagan Administration's murderous and illegal contra war in the 1980s, including the contras extensive ties to the drug cartels.

- Willingness to go after people in his own party when they screwed up, as when his BCCI investigation led to the disgrace of Democratic grand old man Clark Clifford.

- Willingness to buck his own party's liberal wing by being a deficit hawk and free trader.

-Intelligent, thoughtful, cosmopolitan guy who's well positioned to help rebuild America's alliances and reach out to our estranged friends.

-Surrounds himself with smart, capable foreign policy advisors like Richard Holbrooke, Rand Beers, and Joe Wilson.

And there are other reasons as well.  For lefty-progressives, here's a good article on the case for Kerry:

http://www.thenation...20040315&s=corn

Again, are there things I dislike about Kerry?  You bet, and I'll detail them in another post.  But all in all, I think that he'll make a pretty good President, and certainly an improvement over the current occupant.

Zack
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#19 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 09:07 PM

The fact that, he can pronounce Abu Ghraib, is a plus. ;)
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#20 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,137 posts

Posted 21 June 2004 - 09:10 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jun 21 2004, 09:56 PM, said:

I also don't expect Kerry will try to amend the constitution to cater to homophobia.  In fact, on that issue ALONE I'd vote for him.
^That's a major issue for me as well.  Even if Bush gets re-elected, I don't think there's a snowball's chance for that amendment to actually pass--but on the principle he even called for such I thing, I will vote for the candidate who opposes it.

-Nick



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Election 2004, John Kerry

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users