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Bush Campaign Ad

Election 20041 GW Bush

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#1 Guldorak

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 08:12 AM

Remember the furor caused by the Moveon anti Bush ad contest  which recieved submission of an ad with Bush and Hitler in it. Remember all those right wing pundits that denonced that ad as cheap, below the belt and inappropriate. I wonder if they'll hve anything to say amout this one. Somehow I don't think we will hear a peep about it from them.

Here's the story from from Slate.

#2 Delvo

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 08:32 AM

It's just illustrating one of the stunts the Democrats themselves pulled (putting some of their quacky speech quotes together with a quacky segment of one of their quacky ads because they're all assertions that the Democrats have made, just not in the same form), and the Democrats want to act like that's pulling the same stunt instead of just showing what it was that the Democrats had already done?! Why can't these people ever stand having their own words and actions pointed out?

Even if what they're saying about this ad were the truth, it would amount to "They're just as bad as us!" But it isn't anyway.

Still, making the ad this way was a mistake, because people could see it without having seen the original, and then they could mistake it for equating Domcrats' more off-the-wall hate-speeches with Hitler's "mongering". And although it's a fairly accurate comparison, there's too much extra baggage associated with the name "Hitler", and it's already well-known that a comparison on a single detail like that is bound to be thought of as a comparison with the whole person.

Edited by Delvo, 30 June 2004 - 08:43 AM.


#3 Godeskian

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 08:56 AM

According to the website, it's the same as a previous ad they ran. They make no mention of some orchestrated 'democract' campaign to compare Bush to Hitler.

This strikes me as incredibly juvenile to do, for either side.

#4 Drew

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:16 AM

This is just nuts. The ad is intended to show just how hysterical the Democrats have become, and one bit of hysteria included in the ad is the "Bush = Hitler" ad by MoveOn.org. And now the Democrats are complaining about the use of the Hitler image? In other words, "it's okay if we equate Bush with Hitler, but it's wrong for you to tell people that we equate Bush with Hitler." Geez, . . . this is just plain nuts.
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#5 Drew

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:22 AM

By the way, the subject subhead is wrong. The ad does not link Democrats to Hitler. The ad links Democrats to hysterical hatemongering, one manifestation of which is the poisonous and perfidious "Bush = Hitler" meme.
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#6 Godeskian

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:23 AM

Okay, so aside from the Moveon.org ad which compared Hitler to Bush (which if you read the article, missed their screening and was removed poste hast when they realised it) what other attempts have their been by the democractic party (as opposed to a random civilian with a mad on against Bush) to compare the Incumbent to Hitler?

#7 Drew

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:33 AM

Most recently, Vice President and former presidential candidate Al Gore went on a bender comparing Bush supporters to "brownshirts." I'll see if I can collect a few of the many examples.

Edited by Drew, 30 June 2004 - 09:33 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#8 DWF

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 07:18 PM

Drew, on Jun 30 2004, 10:31 AM, said:

Most recently, Vice President and former presidential candidate Al Gore went on a bender comparing Bush supporters to "brownshirts." I'll see if I can collect a few of the many examples.
Maybe Gore's just a Firefly fan and meant to say, "Browncoats". ;)
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#9 Nick

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:37 PM

DWF, on Jun 30 2004, 08:16 PM, said:

Maybe Gore's just a Firefly fan and meant to say, "Browncoats". ;)
I remember reading somewhere that President Bush was a fan of Stargate SG-1 . . . does this mean the Bush camp is gonna start comparing the Democrats to the Goa'uld? :p

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 30 June 2004 - 09:51 PM.


#10 G1223

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 09:49 PM

You mean being thats try to portray themselves as Gods or as parasites. Either one would be a close call.
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#11 the 'Hawk

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 10:05 PM

Gods don't make mistakes. Though it would be nice to carry a tune once in a while.

:cool:
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#12 DWF

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Posted 30 June 2004 - 10:25 PM

the'Hawk, on Jun 30 2004, 11:03 PM, said:

Gods don't make mistakes. Though it would be nice to carry a tune once in a while.

:cool:
Except for Odin and that whole Misletoe screwup, but then without that eye, his vision was alittle limited. :lol:  :lol:
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#13 Corwin

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:17 AM

the'Hawk, on Jun 30 2004, 09:03 PM, said:

Gods don't make mistakes. Though it would be nice to carry a tune once in a while.

:cool:
Isn't that what they have buckets for?

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#14 Corwin

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:43 AM

Even the ad script from the website didn't have the preface that the video did, which I have quoted from below.

Quote

The following video contains remards made by and images from ads sponsored by Kerry Supporters.

Quote

John Kerry has denounced our use of these ads attacking the President.

Quote

He has not denounced liberal supporters like Al Gore, George Soros, and many others who have made speeches comparing the President to Adolf Hitler.


This entire ad is pointing out the fact that some very high profile supporters of Kerry have equated Bush to Hitler and that Kerry has not come out and said that it was wrong to do so. This was definitely NOT an attack comparing Democrats or democratic supporters to Hitler (as one of the clips showed Bush morphed into the "dur furher pose" (saluting, arm outstretched).

However, while I agree with why it was done, I do not approve of the style or content.  I think they should have been less image intensive and more explicit and in your face about it.  It would have been far less ambiguous that way.  I would have come out and asked Kerry point blank if he supported this view of Bush as Hitler and supported his campaign supporters views as such.  If Kerry doesn't (and I don't think he does) then why doesn't he come out and say so.  This will also explain why I'm not in politics and would never be elected for any office....  :look:

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#15 Drew

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 10:54 AM

It's interesting to note that the DNC's email alert on this topic never really made it clear to supporters exactly what this ad was about:

Quote

It isn't often that we'd ask you to go to George W. Bush's campaign website. But every single American should go to georgewbush.com immediately and watch the disgusting ad the Bush/Cheney campaign has featured on the front page.

Titled "The Faces of John Kerry's Democratic Party," the ad features Adolf Hitler alongside Democrats, including John Kerry. President Bush's campaign has relied on negative attacks against Kerry, but this is a new low.

We've always said the Bush campaign would do anything to win, but even we are shocked that they've sunk this low. It's bizarre. It's outrageous. And we're not going to stand for it.

If President Bush has any decency at all, he'll remove this hateful ad from his website immediately.

Perhaps they're banking on people being misled by the ad, and hoping to spin their own hysterical anti-Bush propaganda into Bush-created anti-Democrat hysteria hoping that it turns people against Bush.

I mean, in a way they're acknowledging that the imagery in the MoveOn ads are "a new low," "bizarre," and "outragoeous," and they're recognizing how the kookiness of rhetoric comparing Bush to Hitler could actually work against the Democrats, but in the fog of war they're hoping people won't notice that they're the originators.

Edited by Drew, 01 July 2004 - 10:56 AM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#16 G1223

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:01 AM

Hoping to spin? Trying to turn the people against Bush?

Why make it sound like questions Drew. IT is almost a certainty. They have no issues they have a canidate that when he speaks only those on No-Doze can stay awake for.  So of course they are going to take any comment,ad,speech,or action and turn it into a weapon. What else can they do?
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#17 MuseZack

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:02 AM

Corwin, on Jul 1 2004, 03:41 PM, said:

This entire ad is pointing out the fact that some very high profile supporters of Kerry have equated Bush to Hitler and that Kerry has not come out and said that it was wrong to do so. This was definitely NOT an attack comparing Democrats or democratic supporters to Hitler (as one of the clips showed Bush morphed into the "dur furher pose" (saluting, arm outstretched).
This is pure nonsense.  An ad that was submitted to a left-leaning advocacy group for a contest and was rejected in the first round and taken off the site immediately likened Bush to Hitler.  

Trying to link that to Kerry is absurd.  It's like trolling the archives of lucianne.com, Free Republic, and Little Green Footballs and demanding that Bush renounce every hate-filled utterance found therein.  

More to the point, it's dishonest campaigning.  The Bush people know that Kerry and the Democratic Party haven't likened Bush to Hitler.  But by yelling about it loudly enough, they're hoping to get Kerry to make a public statement and keep the story in the news cycle.  It's straight out of the Lyndon Johnson playbook, when he supposedly told a campaign staffer in Texas to spread the rumor that his Congressional opponent had sex with pigs.  Johnson's campaign manager said, "Lyndon, you know he doesn't do that!" Johnson replied, "I know. I just want to make him deny it."
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#18 Drew

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:07 AM

MuseZack, on Jul 1 2004, 11:00 AM, said:

The Bush people know that Kerry and the Democratic Party haven't likened Bush to Hitler.
Kerry himself? Don't know. The "Democratic party" (by which I assume you mean the DNC speaking as an organization)? Don't know. Powerful, high-ranking Democrats, however, have indeed made the comparison.
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#19 Corwin

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 11:38 AM

MuseZack, on Jul 1 2004, 10:00 AM, said:

This is pure nonsense.  An ad that was submitted to a left-leaning advocacy group for a contest and was rejected in the first round and taken off the site immediately likened Bush to Hitler. 

Trying to link that to Kerry is absurd.  It's like trolling the archives of lucianne.com, Free Republic, and Little Green Footballs and demanding that Bush renounce every hate-filled utterance found therein. 
From what I remember, it won at least part of the contest because it did make it onto the moveon.org website, one of several out of a number that were submitted.  After a public outcry which involved national media exposure, that particular ad was pulled (not that it took very long).  As for linking it with Kerry, moveon.org did that for themselves... It was a Kerry campaign ad.  Do I think Kerry actually thinks that, of course not.  But he should be questioned about it publicly so he does say it's wrong to promote ads like that.  And Bush should be questioned the exact same way on campaign ads that make national exposure.

As for campaigning, aren't they all about spin and propaganda now?  Would anyone ever recognize the truth from all the spin flying about.  These days, anything can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion, regardless of which side you're on or not on.  (or am I being too cynical about the whole thing?)


Corwin
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#20 Nietrick

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 08:23 AM

I am sooooooooo sick of the dirtiness of the campaign. Both sides are acting like pissy children and it will accomplish NOTHING! Most people already have their minds made up and nothing is going to change that. All this bickering and dirty pool is more than likey just gonna make those few undecideds throw up their hands and say "Screw you guys,I'm going home!" and not vote at all.

I have to say with all honesty,that neither of these men much resemble Hitler. While certainly violent and insane,he was,at least,an effective leader. Kerry is a nutcase and Bush is....well...he's a fence sitter.
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