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Irish Pubs go against smoking ban

Smoking Irish Pubs Bans

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#1 Corwin

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 05:23 PM

http://apnews.myway..../D83M50MO0.html


I don't smoke regularly and not at all in the past 5 years  ... but...   Good luck to these folks.  I can certainly empathize with both the pub owners and the patrons who do smoke.


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#2 Aurelius

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 05:54 PM

Well, frankly, speaking as an Irish nonsmoker, I hope that the Minister and the Government hammer this pub for breaking the law. It's the only way to show the people that they're serious about enforcing it.

I don't believe the claims of the owner of Fibber Magees that business is really bad because of the ban. Certainly it would have had some affect on trade, but the real problem for trade is the massive price of drink. That's what's killing pubs, not the smoking ban.

The ban makes so much sense and it's brilliant to be able to have a night out in a pub and not to come home stinking of smoke and coughing.

Stay the course Micheal Martin, stay the course.

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#3 G1223

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 06:47 PM

Yes we need to force businesses to drive business away or to open someplace they can smoke. Oh wait they are not allowed to.  Sorry I gave up on Big Brother.
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#4 Jid

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Posted 07 July 2004 - 07:12 PM

I, for one, welcome our new non-smoking overlords.

I mean, really, if you're going to enforce something that benefits only one segment of society, it might as well be the majority ;)

Edited by Jid, 07 July 2004 - 07:17 PM.

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#5 Godeskian

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 01:42 AM

As an asthmatic, and occasional pubgoer i'm with Aurelius on this. The law says no smoking, and if they dont' enforce it, then what legal imprimatur do they have to demand anyone obey the other laws either.

#6 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 05:51 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 8 2004, 01:40 AM, said:

As an asthmatic, and occasional pubgoer i'm with Aurelius on this. The law says no smoking, and if they dont' enforce it, then what legal imprimatur do they have to demand anyone obey the other laws either.
And what right do they have to tell people they can't smoke? Because that's pretty much what they're doing.

I know when I was back up in NY, I was having a ball...until I found out that there is no smoking in any public place. Now me being me, I just *had* to do something, so I called several friends of mine...all smokers.

First we went down to a local resturant, made a reservation for 30 people. There was only about 15 of us at the time. And we asked for the smoking section. Upon being informed that there was no longer a smoking section, I asked to see the manager.

When the manager came and repeated that there was no smoking section I told him to cancel my reservation. Because I wouldn't support an establishment that discriminated against smokers. The look on his face as he realized just how much money he was loosing that night was priceless.

We did this to several resturants, and the managers all had the same look of surprise when we told them to cancel our reservation...they definately didn't like loosing the money.

Don't get me wrong, I feel for the non-smokers. That's why I feel it should be up to the individual businesses to decide for themselves whether or not to have a smoking section.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#7 Lord Ravensburg

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 06:05 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 8 2004, 10:49 AM, said:

And what right do they have to tell people they can't smoke?
They're not saying they can't smoke.  They're saying they can't smoke in certain areas.  Since smokers don't have the right to subject others to their habit, this is entirely appropriate.

#8 Delvo

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 06:14 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 8 2004, 04:49 AM, said:

And what right do they have to tell people they can't smoke?
The same right they'd have to tell people that they can't go around a restaurant shining a bare 600W light in people's faces, hitting those little hand-held gongs next to other people's ears, dumping curry powder on other people's food, or poking other people with forks. When one person is attacking another, even if without creating medical problems for the victim (which one could argue that second-hand smoke does), the attack should be stopped.

Quote

First we went down to a local resturant... Upon being informed that there was no longer a smoking section, I asked to see the manager... We did this to several resturants, and the managers all had the same look of surprise when we told them to cancel our reservation.
That could very well be literally the most infantile demonstration of stupid selfish pointlessness that I have ever heard of.

#9 Godeskian

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 06:15 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 8 2004, 11:49 AM, said:

I just had to do something....
What LR said,

just so that I understand you correctly. You decided, to kvetch and moan about the law, book up restaurants you HAD NO INTENTION OF EVER EATING IN, denying those seats to patrons who actually wanted a night out, just so you couyld piss people off?

Dude, that's whacked  :wacko:

#10 Shalamar

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 06:30 AM

LotS - I consider your actions ....inappropriate- and lets leave it at that. The restraunts obeying a law is not a thing they have a choice in once that law becomes a law.

Edited by Shalamar, 08 July 2004 - 06:34 AM.

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#11 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:14 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 8 2004, 06:13 AM, said:

just so that I understand you correctly. You decided, to kvetch and moan about the law, book up restaurants you HAD NO INTENTION OF EVER EATING IN, denying those seats to patrons who actually wanted a night out, just so you couyld piss people off?

Dude, that's whacked  :wacko:
Yep, that was pretty much my intention. And it worked...From the look on the manager's face, it was well worth it.

I come from the old school...Where if you frell with me, it's a must that I frell with you back.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:19 AM

Lord Ravensburg, on Jul 8 2004, 06:03 AM, said:

They're not saying they can't smoke.  They're saying they can't smoke in certain areas.  Since smokers don't have the right to subject others to their habit, this is entirely appropriate.
I'm not sure if Irish pubs had, before this ban, a seperate smoking section or not...

In regard to the NY state ban though, I do know that NY state, prior to the complete ban, told restuarants that if they wanted to have a smoking section they had to have a complete seperate ventalitation system for the smoking section. A number of establishments spent the several thousand dollars the seperate system cost...only to be told down the road that it doesn't matter anymore.

IMO, each and every restuarant should sue the state of NY for the cost of those seperate systems.

Bottom line is this: It's suppose to be a free market, and now it isn't. If a restuarant wants to have a smoking section, they should be allowed to have it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 Godeskian

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:20 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 8 2004, 02:12 PM, said:

I come from the old school...Where if you frell with me, it's a must that I frell with you back.
Yes, god forbid that pubs should obey the laws of the land  :rolleyes:

So rather than taking our your ire on the folks that got the law passed, you decided to do it on the pubs.

You know what, I think i agree with Delvo's characterisation of your action. It's like attacking a colleague because the boss said that dress down day was cancelled.

#14 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:23 AM

Delvo, on Jul 8 2004, 06:12 AM, said:

The same right they'd have to tell people that they can't go around a restaurant shining a bare 600W light in people's faces, hitting those little hand-held gongs next to other people's ears, dumping curry powder on other people's food, or poking other people with forks. When one person is attacking another, even if without creating medical problems for the victim (which one could argue that second-hand smoke does), the attack should be stopped.
Alright then....no more wearing perfume or cologne when eating out. God knows that some perfumes are downright offensive to the nose, as are some colognes. And little kids....leave them at home folks, because nothing ruins a meal like a screaming infant. And don't even get me started on alcohol....the smell alone is extremely offensive, so forget about that glass of wine with dinner.

If they ban the above I'd have no problem with them banning smokers.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:26 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 8 2004, 08:18 AM, said:

So rather than taking our your ire on the folks that got the law passed, you decided to do it on the pubs.

You know what, I think i agree with Delvo's characterisation of your action. It's like attacking a colleague because the boss said that dress down day was cancelled.
I took it out on the restuarants not the pubs. As I understand it, in NY several pub owners got rid of their lottery machines in protest to the ban...costing NY state several million in revenue. So there was no need to do it to the pubs, besides I never heard of someone making reservations at a bar.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 Godeskian

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:30 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jul 8 2004, 02:24 PM, said:

I took it out on the restuarants not the pubs.
You know, that's a great way to completely ignore my point.

Fine, i'll restate, by taking it out on the restaurants it is like taking out your boss decision to ban dress down day on your colleagues.

It is punishing the wrong people for what you perceive as a wrong.

#17 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:35 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 8 2004, 08:28 AM, said:

You know, that's a great way to completely ignore my point.

Fine, i'll restate, by taking it out on the restaurants it is like taking out your boss decision to ban dress down day on your colleagues.

It is punishing the wrong people for what you perceive as a wrong.
Not really. If enough restuarant owners got together and bitched about it, then perhaps they could've gotten the ban removed.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#18 Godeskian

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:36 AM

That presumes the ban is a bad thing. I happen to think it's a good one.

#19 Corwin

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 08:40 AM

From my understanding of the article.....

This particular pub does have a separate smoking section... upstairs, which leaves the entire downstairs for non-smokers. Unless the upstairs part is open to the downstairs, what's the problem?  (aside from the now  illegal part)

I have asthma as well.... but I do find it quite relaxing to be able to walk into a pub here and light up my pipe if I choose to do so.  I would not do so if I was among a crowd of non-smokers though, that's just being rude.

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#20 Mary Rose

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Posted 08 July 2004 - 09:34 AM

I'm ashmatic and I still think a ban is wrong.  Why?  Because it should be up to the individual busineess owner if they want to allow smoking or not.  

Why the hell should the government get involved in something it has no right to get involved in?


Oh, and BTW, I know some nice people that smoke.  Should I deprive myself of their company simply because they smoke.  No.

They don't always smoke around me but sometimes they do.  Gues what?  I suck it up because I like them.

I hardly think being in a non smoking section away from the smoking section for however long it takes to eat is a big health threat.
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