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Israel World Court

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#81 Ilphi

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 05:50 AM

...and rather predictably...

Quote

Israel rejects UN vote on barrier

Senior advisers to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon have said work will continue on the West Bank security barrier despite condemnation at the UN.

The General Assembly in New York voted by an overwhelming majority to demand that Israel dismantle the barrier in line with a UN world court ruling.

Palestinians have hailed the vote as a major diplomatic victory.

But the resolution has no legal force and Israel insists the barrier is needed to protect its citizens.

Yea, ere my hot youth pass, I speak to my people and say:
Ye shall be foolish as I; ye shall scatter, not save;
Ye shall venture your all, lest ye lose what is more than all;
Ye shall call for a miracle, taking Christ at His word.
And for this I will answer, O people, answer here and hereafter,
The Fool - Padraic Pearse

#82 Brynhilde

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 07:05 AM

Ilphi said:

Balls. I love my country, and I'm going to defend her honour.

*applauds* I'm so proud! :) Very well said, hon. And I may only be half British but I love her too.
"Ah, get born, keep warm
Short pants, romance, learn to dance
Get dressed, get blessed
Try to be a success
Please her, please him, buy gifts
Don't steal, don't lift
Twenty years of schoolin'
And they put you on the day shift..."

~ Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

#83 Shaun

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 08:42 AM

Ilphi, well said.
Shaun
Veni, vidi, vici

#84 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:11 AM

Ilphi, on Jul 21 2004, 01:01 AM, said:

Balls. I love my country, and I'm going to defend her honour. Somehow I doubt that you'd like it if I started tossing around "America invaded Iraq for oil!" rhetoric, or why not "George Bush is a puppet of Haliburton!" Your assertion that it was "British cowardice" that led to the British foreign policy in that region is as ignorant and emotional as either of those sample statements.
Balls....right back at ya.

Thanks for the history recap.  You didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know.  

I stand by everything I said.  Nothing I wrote should be intepreted as painting the issue as just black and white.  

If some folks are determined to get "really pissed off"   Oh Well.

Did I say anything about it being easy?   How about that......hard decisions are HARD.

It's part of the deal when you insist on having an Empire!  Come on everyone, it's "poor unappreciated Britain" time.  It's hard running an Empire.  Boo hoo.


ps - speaking of (modern) ignorance, perhaps you could tell me what state Calgary is in?
Favourite Coda thread quotes.....

(1)  Yes. Bad Trance! Wicked, Evil Trance!

(2)  Stayed purple.   (3)  Bad, bad Trance!

(4)  Love and Blowing Things Up continue forever. The universe wins

#85 Ilphi

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:25 AM

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Nothing I wrote should be intepreted as painting the issue as just black and white.

But you did exactly that when you described Britain as "cowardly". You attempted to grossly simplify an issue to an emotional level. If you do understand all of the history that you claim to, then surely you can see that "cowardice" was not the motivating factor in foreign policiy decisions.

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If some folks are determined to get "really pissed off" Oh Well.

Yeah, I can't think why anyone would get annoyed when their country is called cowardly. Just boggles the mind. They must be determined to start a fight...

Quote

Did I say anything about it being easy? How about that......hard decisions are HARD.

But what you're suggesting Britain should have done, draw a line on a map, is exactly what Britain is more criticised for doing in North Africa. Britain was searching for a dynamic, flexible solution that happened to fall apart when a little thing called World War II broke out.

Quote

ps - speaking of (modern) ignorance, perhaps you could tell me what state Calgary is in?

Alberta, Canada. What is that supposed to prove? We're on the internet. As far as anyone knows I just googled that.
Yea, ere my hot youth pass, I speak to my people and say:
Ye shall be foolish as I; ye shall scatter, not save;
Ye shall venture your all, lest ye lose what is more than all;
Ye shall call for a miracle, taking Christ at His word.
And for this I will answer, O people, answer here and hereafter,
The Fool - Padraic Pearse

#86 Shaun

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:30 AM

Calling someone's country 'cowardly' is what I found unacceptable and all too common in this group and I'm sick and tired of seeing it. Whatever my disagreements with the extreme right I don't call them a bunch of "war mongering fundamentalist lunatics" because it wouldn't be right. (Just as an example before anyone gets upset).

I'm sure Ilphi would be able to answer this, but as we're quite well educated in the UK I'm sure I can answer too - Calgary is in Alberta, Canada. (No googling either.) I've no idea what the point of that was supposed to be.

Edited by Shaun, 21 July 2004 - 10:34 AM.

Shaun
Veni, vidi, vici

#87 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:47 AM

Ilphi, on Jul 21 2004, 01:01 AM, said:

Somehow I doubt that you'd like it if I started tossing around "America invaded Iraq for oil!" rhetoric, or why not "George Bush is a puppet of Haliburton!"
If you folks paid the LEAST amount of attention, it would bloody clear why I asked if he knew where Calgary was located.

Here's the quote again for those not paying attention.

Honestly..........
Favourite Coda thread quotes.....

(1)  Yes. Bad Trance! Wicked, Evil Trance!

(2)  Stayed purple.   (3)  Bad, bad Trance!

(4)  Love and Blowing Things Up continue forever. The universe wins

#88 Ilphi

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:49 AM

Who cares what country you're in? I've read your comments in this thread, and you've been staunch in your support of Israel and America. I still maintain - I doubt you would like it if I did toss around comments about America's motivation for invading Iraq. I could find a similar comment to make about Canada, but the America one resonates better.
Yea, ere my hot youth pass, I speak to my people and say:
Ye shall be foolish as I; ye shall scatter, not save;
Ye shall venture your all, lest ye lose what is more than all;
Ye shall call for a miracle, taking Christ at His word.
And for this I will answer, O people, answer here and hereafter,
The Fool - Padraic Pearse

#89 Ilphi

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 10:54 AM

This thread was pretty much started on the basis that individual county boundries arn't as important as where you put your support, as Ogami said something along the lines of that he expressed moral support for Israel and thus considered it "our war". You've made it quite clear where you stand on the issue, making your little game rather pointless.
Yea, ere my hot youth pass, I speak to my people and say:
Ye shall be foolish as I; ye shall scatter, not save;
Ye shall venture your all, lest ye lose what is more than all;
Ye shall call for a miracle, taking Christ at His word.
And for this I will answer, O people, answer here and hereafter,
The Fool - Padraic Pearse

#90 Uncle Sid

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 12:04 PM

Okay, enough.  

First off, while we generally give some leeway towards saying how you feel about larger amorphous groups that people don't identify closely with, which includes countries, religions, administrations and party affiliation, however this has gone a bit far.

I read what the intent of the comment was to indicate that the British government showed cowardice, which is a strong assertion, but not something to be taken personally.  No one's country has ever been consistently brave or strong.

If the comment was meant to indicate that the British people were guilty of cowardice, the comment needs to be withdrawn as it is unacceptable here.  

I suggest that the original comment be altered to suggest that any allegations of cowardice be specifically pointed at the British government in power at the time, so that we don't make broad brush assertions about a group of people who have never been known as a country of cowards.
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. - Jack Handey

#91 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 01:27 PM

Uncle Sid, on Jul 21 2004, 10:02 AM, said:

I read what the intent of the comment was to indicate that the British government showed cowardice, which is a strong assertion, but not something to be taken personally.  No one's country has ever been consistently brave or strong.

(snip)

I suggest that the original comment be altered to suggest that any allegations of cowardice be specifically pointed at the British government in power at the time,
I've inserted the word "timidness" in place of the original word in the original message.

In most situations I would be distressed that some folks are upset at something I wrote. But not this time though.  I find it quite unusual that it has been taken very personally.

:ermm:

Edited by Mr.Calgary, 21 July 2004 - 01:29 PM.

Favourite Coda thread quotes.....

(1)  Yes. Bad Trance! Wicked, Evil Trance!

(2)  Stayed purple.   (3)  Bad, bad Trance!

(4)  Love and Blowing Things Up continue forever. The universe wins

#92 Ogami

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 03:04 PM

I mentioned Moshe Dayan's autobiography because he details how he spent a full year in a British prison, for disturbing the peace with his fellow insurrectionists. There Dayan got to know many arab prisoners, they were in there for the same cause. He had a mutual respect with them, as one soldier to another.

The bitterness between the Israelis and the British is unfortunate, but wholly necessary as far as I can tell. Just cross purposes, is all.

-Ogami



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