Jump to content

Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

PM admits graves claim 'untrue'

UK Tony Blair Mass graves Lie Politics-World

  • Please log in to reply
103 replies to this topic

#101 Anakam


    Way Star

  • Islander
  • 13,862 posts

Posted 25 July 2004 - 08:58 PM

Drew, on Jul 25 2004, 09:49 PM, said:

Can you please tell them not to shout "long live the intifada!" this time? It frightens me as much as if it were a KKK rally shouting "death to all non-whites."
I'll see what I can do. ;)



Ah, yes.  Some of those folks came to my college campus and were loudly shouting in the center of campus (fortunately there were only about 15 of them) and holding up some EXTREMELY gross pictures of aborted fetuses and stuff.  Now, anti-abortion protestors are all well and good as are abortion protestors, but if they have to resort to pictures that are just as disgusting as statements like "Long live the intifada" and the burning of an effigy, then they're NOT all well and good and need to stay at their headquarters till they can figure out a way to protest that gets attention without being obscene.  If that's still possible in this country, that is.

The above qualifications go for both sides, BTW. :p

#102 Drew


    Josef K.

  • Islander
  • 12,191 posts

Posted 30 July 2004 - 05:13 PM

Christopher Hitchens, my favorite lefty, has a nice response to this news story.

Click Here.


Only 55 out of 270 mass-grave sites, as he says, have yet been fully examined. And while some of these contain "hundreds", others have yielded no more than a dozen corpses! So what's the great sanctimonious fuss?

Well, I am no friend of sanctimony. But when I stood on the mass grave at Hilla, near Babylon, about a year ago, I was upset not just by the huge number of cadavers, which by the way ran into the thousands. I was upset by the relatives who'd had to wait a decade to inspect the place, and who had found that the water table had washed a lot of the bodies away. A possible shred of clothing, or fragment of an identity card, is not much consolation in these circumstances. Indeed, many of the relatives had acted against their own interests, here as elsewhere, by rushing to the site as soon as the murderer had fallen, and by digging with their bare hands.

As we have learned from grim experience -- everywhere from Argentina to Ethiopia to Bosnia -- the cold and determined forensic search for "the disappeared" is at odds with the urgent need of the survivors for information. Often, they also want to learn the most heart-shrivelling thing: not whether he or she is dead but how long it took them to die. Mercifully, this evidence is not always available either. I would have expected Adams to know that.

But I would not have expected him to make light of the matter. You can go anywhere in Iraq, perhaps especially in Iraqi Kurdistan, and you can interview any Iraqi exile family, and you will have a hard time finding anyone who is not related to one of "the missing".

It is quite conceivable that this horrific fact has in itself led to some over-counting. Tony Blair, scorned by Adams, has mentioned a figure of 400,000. The late UN special representative for Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello, specified a figure of 290,000 Iraqis over three decades. (That was before the Saddamist-jihadist alliance put an end to de Mello's life by blowing up the UN headquarters in Baghdad last year, thus adding to a toll that is by the way still rising.) Bear in mind that those are only statistics of Iraqis. But perhaps Adams doesn't wish to take the word of the man who assisted East Timor to liberation, and who was sceptical of the intervention in the first place.

Very well, he can consult the still-extant UN resolution that demanded in vain that Iraq provide an accounting of what happened to the many hundreds of Kuwaiti prisoners who vanished during the illegal obliteration of Kuwaiti statehood in 1990. Or he can inquire after the hundreds of thousands of young Iranians and Iraqis who perished as a consequence of Saddam's lunatic invasion of Iran. If he wants to do Baathist body counts, I can keep him busy for the rest of his journalistic career.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#103 Ogami

  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 30 July 2004 - 05:34 PM

Nick wrote:

So please spare us your continued ridiculous generalizations.

Ever been to a Phish concert? I stand by my slur on the state of bathing amongst liberal hippie protester types.

Soap apparently supports the military-industrial complex, so that's out.

Why do you think they put those Boston Convention protesters in a cage? One word: hygiene.


#104 Mr. Synystyr

Mr. Synystyr

    Watching from the shadows...

  • Islander
  • 459 posts

Posted 30 July 2004 - 05:51 PM

I am a liberal.  I am, on occasion, a protester.  I am not a hippie.  I bathe at least once, if not two or more times, each day.  Ogami, I suggest that your experience at a Phish concert is not a very good representation of liberal protesters.

Also, thank you for your post in my challenge thread.  I hope to see more like it, from all sides.


Feel the velvet darkness caressing you...

Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: UK, Tony Blair, Mass graves, Lie, Politics-World

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users