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Kerry Losing Ground To Bush?

Election 2004 John Kerry poll

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#21 Anna

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 09:59 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 29 2004, 08:47 AM, said:

Makes a lot of sense actually.
Well, that's a scary thought!!  :lol:

Except for those in the New England states, I don't think ANYONE knew who Howard Dean was before this campaign season. And I don't know why anyone overseas would have heard of most of the other candidates, they haven't had much of a reason to be on the international stage.

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#22 Ogami

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 10:54 AM

Cyberhippie wrote:

I know you are convinced ti won't happen Ogami, but think for a second what happens if Kerry manages to win, and has no specific platform in place.

I don't think Kerry needs a platform. This way he gets the flexibility he needs to be on both sides of every issue.

-Ogami

#23 G1223

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 10:58 AM

aphrael, on Jul 29 2004, 12:51 PM, said:

snipped

G1223, on Jul 28 2004, 09:28 PM, said:

we jsut know he's not Bush
That's reason enough to vote for Kerry
Then do not claim there is a issue you are voting for.  Because all you have is he's not Bush. It's not about his thoughts about our standing in the eyes of the world,or the economy,or the war on terror.
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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:08 AM

that's absolutely true. But the very fact that 'he's not bush' has become a rallying cry should be some indication that regardless of the eventuall rights or wrongs of his actions, he has failed to convince the american public that they were correct and justified.

'he's not Bush' speaks to a deeply abiding desire to get Bush out, without caring overly much about what or who replaces him. I can't imagine it would be such a prevailant battlecry unless his actions were seen to be grievously in error.

and in the end, politics is a game of perception, much more than anything else.

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#25 Lover of Purple

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:10 AM

Actually this samething was tried when Reagan was president.

Didn't work too well then either. :)

#26 Delvo

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:27 AM

Cyberhippie, on Jul 29 2004, 10:06 AM, said:

I can't imagine it would be such a prevailant battlecry unless his actions were seen to be grievously in error.
It's actually the other way around; people say his actions are in error because there is the rallying cry that needs to be legitimized. But in fact the urgency to get rid of Bush comes from Democrats in prominent positions who can't stand being out of power for a change and have learned how easily their constituents can be worked up into a frenzy on demand with or without real reason.

#27 Ogami

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:30 AM

Delvo wrote:

But in fact the urgency to get rid of Bush comes from Democrats in prominent positions who can't stand being out of power for a change and have learned how easily their constituents can be worked up into a frenzy on demand with or without real reason.

See the transcript of Sharpton's speech from last night. Bush will restore segregation and slavery if he remains in office! I wonder when the Democrats will get tired of the "Chicken Little sky is falling" approach to governing. Can you imagine George Washington or Thomas Jefferson governing like this? It would be ridiculous.

-Ogami

#28 Godeskian

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:31 AM

Okay, i'm cool with that too, but do you see that it really doesn't matter which way round those two statements go?

In this particular case, it doesn't matter if the chicken came before the egg, all that matter is that both exist.

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#29 gaius claudius

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 11:51 AM

Ogami, on Jul 29 2004, 12:28 PM, said:

Delvo wrote:

But in fact the urgency to get rid of Bush comes from Democrats in prominent positions who can't stand being out of power for a change and have learned how easily their constituents can be worked up into a frenzy on demand with or without real reason.

See the transcript of Sharpton's speech from last night. Bush will restore segregation and slavery if he remains in office! I wonder when the Democrats will get tired of the "Chicken Little sky is falling" approach to governing. Can you imagine George Washington or Thomas Jefferson governing like this? It would be ridiculous.

-Ogami
Ogami...I not only saw Rev. Sharpton speech and I've read the transcript...What the Heck are you talking about??

There was point where he did say this ...

Quote

We are also faced with the prospect of in the next four years that two or more of the Supreme Court Justice seats will become available. This year we celebrated the anniversary of Brown v. the Board of Education.

This court has voted five to four on critical issues of women's rights and civil rights. It is frightening to think that the gains of civil and women rights and those movements in the last century could be reversed if this administration is in the White House in these next four years.

Could you point out the part where he claimed slavery would be re introduced...

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#30 Mr. Synystyr

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 01:07 PM

Delvo, on Jul 29 2004, 09:25 AM, said:

It's actually the other way around; people say his actions are in error because there is the rallying cry that needs to be legitimized. But in fact the urgency to get rid of Bush comes from Democrats in prominent positions who can't stand being out of power for a change and have learned how easily their constituents can be worked up into a frenzy on demand with or without real reason.
I disagree, but I can only speak for myself.  I want to see Bush out of the White House for reasons that have nothing to do with what any prominent Democrat has said.  I want him out of office based on his own words and actions.  He lacks the skills and natural attributes that I look for in a leader.  His vision for the future of America, and the world, runs very contrary to my own.  I disagree with more of his actions in office than I agree with.  I dislike Cheney, but I would rather see him in office than Bush.  At least I have a modicum of respect for Cheney.

So yes, though Kerry was not my choice for the Democratic candidacy, I respect and agree with him, and Edwards, enough to vote for them in November.  It won't be because Bush is a Republican, or because Kerry is a Democrat.  It will be because I believe that, given the choice between the two, Kerry will be a better President.

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#31 aphrael

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 01:16 PM

Ogami, on Jul 29 2004, 07:28 AM, said:

Aphrael wrote:

That's reason enough to vote for Kerry

That sort of "support" is precisely why Kerry will lose. No one can say anything about Kerry they like or find appealing. It's just "anyone but Bush" for the Democrats.

That's just got to make John Kerry feel so good, such enthusiasm for his ideas and policies! (chuckle)

-Ogami
Listen to the convention speeches.  They are outlining what they plan to do.

#32 Drew

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 01:28 PM

aphrael, on Jul 29 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

Listen to the convention speeches.  They are outlining what they plan to do.
I have been listening with great curiosity, and I haven't heard any plans yet. Maybe they're going to let Kerry speak on it, but after three days of Bush-bashing, the tone has been set. Although perhaps "No more Bush" is all they've got by way of a platform.  :cool:

Edited by Drew, 29 July 2004 - 01:28 PM.

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#33 Norville

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 10:36 PM

Re: Sharpton -- this thought occured to me while listening to him: "I'm so glad he won't be President, because I could imagine him bellowing his State of the Union addresses in just that way!" **headache** ;)
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