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Kerry's Flip-Flops on Iraq

Election 2004 John Kerry Flip-flopper

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#21 Caretaker

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 04:16 PM

Drew, on Jul 29 2004, 02:45 PM, said:


That much is obvious. All I've heard so far is stuff along the lines of "We'll do it differently" and "George Bush must go!" No specifics. Can anyone tell me what John Kerry would do regarding terrorism? Regarding supporting the fledgling democracy in Iraq? In rebuilding Afghanistan? In responding to genocide in Sudan? How about domestically? Will he ensure that any judicial appointees confine themselves to interpreting the law rather than usurping Congress and creating it. Recently in Duluth, John Kerry proclaimed that he was a conservative and supported conservative values. What does he mean by that? Should I worry? Does he oppose or support the Patriot Act? How about my taxes? Will they keep going up? Will John Edwards continue to sue doctors ensuring a rise in my medical insurance?
      That's hopefully what we will find out tonight.

#22 Kevin Street

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 05:17 PM

Mr. Synystyr, on Jul 29 2004, 02:13 PM, said:

If you really want to know, here's one source for answers, and here's another.

Best to all.   :yin-yang:
I posted a couple of other links here as well.
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#23 HubcapDave


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Posted 29 July 2004 - 05:33 PM

emsparks, on Jul 29 2004, 01:32 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on Jul 29 2004, 02:07 PM, said:

You're giving a non sequitor there. What does jobs have to do with the topic of this thread? ...
The relevancy is in the application of the title “opportunistic.”
Well, then, I would have to say that is a severely tenuous connection you've made to bring up your point. The term opportunist is being used to describe the motivation for John Kerry's words and actions. You somehow morph that into a "George Bush doesn't care about anybody but rich people" and that the Republican Party is somehow responsible for what jobs are out there.

Whether you are right or not is not the point. Rather, that it has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand I'm wondering why you brought it up in this thread. If you wanted to go after Bush and the Republicans, why not start an independent thread to do that? Also, why do that instead of arguing the merits of the topic in the thread?

#24 Kevin Street

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 05:42 PM

Drew said:

I think that if you put Bush and Kerry in a room with a cross-section of Americans, George Bush would warmly associate with all of them.

"George Bush" and "warmly associate" are two phrases I wouldn't normally put together. :eh: He seems more the cold aristocratic type, one of those fellows who loves you if you're part of the "in" group and couldn't care less about you if you're not.

'Doonesbury' Artist Trudeau Skewers Bush; 'Doonesbury' Cartoonist Garry Trudeau Recalls Bush As 'Sarcastic Preppy' in Rolling Stone Interview


The Associated Press

NEW YORK July 14, 2004 — Cartoonist Garry Trudeau, who has skewered politicians for decades in his comic strip "Doonesbury," tells Rolling Stone magazine he remembers Yale classmate George W. Bush as "just another sarcastic preppy who gave people nicknames and arranged for keg deliveries."

Trudeau attended Yale University with Bush in the late 1960s and served with him on a dormitory social committee.

"Even then he had clearly awesome social skills," Trudeau said. "He could also make you feel extremely uncomfortable ... He was extremely skilled at controlling people and outcomes in that way. Little bits of perfectly placed humiliation."

Drew said:

Kerry would be a wallflower.

Agreed! Kerry is a nerd, through and through. That's one reason why I like him. :)

Edited by Kevin Street, 29 July 2004 - 05:43 PM.

#25 Delvo

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 06:35 PM

aphrael, on Jul 29 2004, 12:42 PM, said:

Apparently Kerry isn't the only one to flip-flop


Cyberhippie @ Jul 29 2004, on 12:50 PM, said:

on the issues mentioned he said one thing, and then did another.

Actually, in most cases, no; these are examples of how something that makes perfectly good sense can be misrepresented to appear to be a flip-flop. Some are real, too, but that doesn't change the real problem with the whole flip-flop angle on things: the accusation is far too easy to create the illusion of when it isn't there, and thus far too easy to defend against or mimic right back when you're the target, which makes it look illegitimate even if/when it isn't. And on top of that, it prevents you from unconflictedly making a case that your opponent's votes are consistently bad, since a flip-flopper wouldn't show such a strong pattern one way or the other.

#26 G1223


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Posted 29 July 2004 - 07:51 PM

So we will end our dependance of forigen oil. How? By making Fuel Cell Technology pop into existance and that will instantly end that dependenced. We will make the average american drive a Gas/electric cart...I mean car that is said to get 60 miles to the gallon hiway but comsumer reports shows gets 30 miles to the gallon and cost more for less ability than a carwhich we have today.

Someone needs to sit John Kerry down and explain that Billions are already in the program to make fuel cell technology work let alone make it a reality for the common man.

We will go back to France and Germany being the guys who tell us where and how to use force. While the bulk up on the blood...I mean Food for Oil Scam.Sorry France and Germany are our allies like the drug dealer and the pimp are to the police.
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#27 Drew


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Posted 29 July 2004 - 07:57 PM

Hmm. I noticed a lot of pie in the sky on Kerry's website, but very little about how we're gonna get that pie up there. Just saying it's gonna happen doesn't mean that pies will suddenly start levitating of their own accord.
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#28 Delvo

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 08:07 PM

G1223, on Jul 29 2004, 06:49 PM, said:

Someone needs to sit John Kerry down and explain that Billions are already in the program to make fuel cell technology work let alone make it a reality for the common man.
It already works, and has been for decades. It's just also been prohibitively expensive for most of that time and required storage systems that you wouldn't put in a car, so development now is into making it cost less and be more portable.

Where are the billions (of dollars, I presume) for this work, though? I haven't heard of it or anything even close. I've never heard of a major government program to fund fuel-cell-car development prior to Bush mentioning it in the State Of The Union show a couple of years ago. If you find the idea foolish, that would be a Bush folly, not a Kerry folly. Also, I don't believe Bush's proposal from a State Of The Union show was that big, nor have I heard since then that the proposal was carried out. (If it wasn't, that would make it another candidate for Bush being called a flip-flopper, even if the actual reason was something else like obstruction from legislators who listen to ethanol lobbyists.)

#29 emsparks

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 08:22 PM


Three things:

President Bush did not originate the fuel cell program, nor is he properly funding it, it’s been around since the late nineteen sixties. If you haven’t noticed fuel cell vehicles are all ready on the market and selling well given their cost.

There is no reason why we can’t be developing ethanol and fuels cells at the same time, God knows that for their given applications we need them both.

Why in Gods name is the fusion project so under funded, if President Bush is so bent on achieving clean energy, and energy independents.


Edited by emsparks, 29 July 2004 - 08:27 PM.


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#30 tennyson

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 12:03 AM

Maybe because ethanol is a scam,


and fusion research has been one of the scientific projects that has been ridiculed and given Golden Fleece Awards by various members of Congress and since they control the purse strings thier isn't a lot Bush could do even if he was planning that far into the future. So far he just seems to have been focusing on chemical combustion fuels like hydrogen for the long term and alternate oil sources like Equatorial Guinea, oil shale and coal gassification.
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#31 Ogami

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 12:16 PM

Hmm, a general discussion of Kerry's flip flops. This could go on for pages!

From today's editorial at the New York Post:


Kerry, after all, told an Arab-American audience that Israel's security fence was "a barrier to peace" — then told Jewish groups that it's "necessary to the security of Israel." That's right: He doesn't just flip-flop — he takes both sides at the same time.

Keeping quiet must have seemed like the best way of playing both ends against the middle in Boston.

But it also helps explain why Kerry didn't get the boost he sorely needed from his hometown convention.

Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Election 2004, John Kerry, Flip-flopper

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