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Bush Says She Discussed Gesture With Jenna

Election 2004 Laura Bush Jenna Bush Press

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#1 DWF

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:31 AM

http://story.news.ya.../brf_laura_bush

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Everyone does things and says things they are sorry for, first lady Laura Bush observes. And she's not necessarily talking about plain-speaking Teresa Heinz Kerry.

"I think I had a little girl who stuck her tongue out at the press last week. I shouldn't have brought it up, but it happens," Bush said Wednesday on "The Early Show" on CBS.

Daughter Jenna, 22, laughed and stuck out her tongue at news media July 20 during a campaign trip to St. Louis with her father. Photographers caught the waggish pose as Jenna sat in the presidential limousine.

"I didn't actually know about it," her mother said. "I was hiking in Glacier National Park with no news, no telephones. So when I got off my hike I called her and she sort of went on about it like she was sure I knew about it, which I didn't."

Her advice to her daughter? "Maybe you should work on your issues of impulsiveness or something," she recalled.

Bush wouldn't offer similar advice to John Kerry's wife, who has told an insistent reporter to "shove it" and responded to Bush supporters' chants of "Four more years!" by saying "They want four more years of hell."

When asked if Heinz Kerry's "shove it" comment was appropriate, Bush said: "It's hard when your husband's running for president. It's hard to be scrutinized and to hear the criticisms, and I think that's really what the fact of the matter is in what she said."

It's too bad that Mrs Bush isn't running, she'd probably appeal to more voters than her husband.
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#2 Atavus

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:39 AM

What's so bad and newsworthy about sticking out your tounge? Sure, it's a bit silly, but it's not like she walked past reporters showing them the finger or anything. And sticking out your tounge can hardly be called offensive, can it?
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#3 Drew

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 10:47 AM

Oh, the press is probably looking for some sort of "moral equivalency" between sticking your tongue out and saying "shove it."  :cool:
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#4 Kimmer

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 11:34 AM

Atavus, on Aug 4 2004, 08:37 AM, said:

What's so bad and newsworthy about sticking out your tounge? Sure, it's a bit silly, but it's not like she walked past reporters showing them the finger or anything. And sticking out your tounge can hardly be called offensive, can it?
  • It's immature.
  • It's rude.
  • It shows a lack of respect for others.
  • It shows lack of self-control.
  • It's often used in place of saying the words Ms. Kerry said, or in place of the finger gesture.


#5 G1223

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 11:38 AM

Also it can be the source of another Moore film. It can show an intent to show that it was a set of prearranged signals to the Saudi Royal family to start on some part of a plan to take over the world.
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#6 Atavus

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 11:55 AM

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 04:32 PM, said:

It's immature.
I'll give you that, but I still don't see the problem. I wouldn't be offended if someone stuck their tongue out at me and if anything, I'd see it as a playful gesture. It doesn't say "shove it" to me, I see it as the (probably very tiered) daughter of the President goofing around while being required to campaign with her father to uphold the "family image".
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#7 DWF

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:10 PM

Atavus, on Aug 4 2004, 12:53 PM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 04:32 PM, said:

It's immature.
I'll give you that, but I still don't see the problem. I wouldn't be offended if someone stuck their tongue out at me and if anything, I'd see it as a playful gesture. It doesn't say "shove it" to me, I see it as the (probably very tiered) daughter of the President goofing around while being required to campaign with her father to uphold the "family image".
For that matter, I don't have a problem with "shove it", it's nowhere near as harsh as what I hear everyday. ;)
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#8 Kimmer

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:21 PM

Atavus, on Aug 4 2004, 09:53 AM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 04:32 PM, said:

It's immature.
I'll give you that, but I still don't see the problem. I wouldn't be offended if someone stuck their tongue out at me and if anything, I'd see it as a playful gesture. It doesn't say "shove it" to me, I see it as the (probably very tiered) daughter of the President goofing around while being required to campaign with her father to uphold the "family image".
There is a major difference in age between you and I, so we tend to see things differently. ;)  Sticking your tongue out at someone, as this young lady did, is rude and is not the type of behavior exhibited by a mature, responsible adult in this situation. Sticking your tongue out at friends when you are all together joking and laughing is very different from this situation. "Family image", your own image - they are important, but that's something you won't realize until you yourself are a bit older. Gads, I'm starting to sound like my mother here. :crazy:

Just a minor clarification, the girls have not been "required to campaign" for their dad. It was something they wanted to do.

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For that matter, I don't have a problem with "shove it", it's nowhere near as harsh as what I hear everyday.
That doesn't make it right. Ms. Kerry needs her mouth washed out with soap. She's shown herself to be rude, insensitive and lacking in manners as far as I'm concerned.

Where is Miss Manners when you really need her, anyway? ;)

#9 DWF

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:25 PM

^^^Well maybe they should keep the press abit farther back, at least iinthe Kerry case. ;)
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#10 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 12:32 PM

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

That doesn't make it right. Ms. Kerry needs her mouth washed out with soap. She's shown herself to be rude, insensitive and lacking in manners as far as I'm concerned.

Where is Miss Manners when you really need her, anyway? ;)
I'm glad you tossed that in, I was scratching my head otherwise.  :unsure:
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#11 Kimmer

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 01:04 PM

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 4 2004, 10:30 AM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

That doesn't make it right. Ms. Kerry needs her mouth washed out with soap. She's shown herself to be rude, insensitive and lacking in manners as far as I'm concerned.

Where is Miss Manners when you really need her, anyway? ;)
I'm glad you tossed that in, I was scratching my head otherwise.  :unsure:
I don't understand what had you scratching your head?

#12 Orpheus

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 01:34 PM

Immature? Maybe. I'm hardly the one to judge.

Though I haven't seen the photo, I can think of at least two US Presidents, a foreign head of state and countless popular celebrities who have been photographed [1] sticking their tongues out at the photographers that hounded them constantly. This photo of Einstein has sold millions of posters for half a century, and has earned him nothing but fondness. Einstein's dislike of being hounded by the press is well known.

It seems a perfectly normal and playful reaction -- if anything, a paradoxically gentle way of reacting publicly to the stress, sending a message to the press etc. I won't pretend there weren't some pretentious nits criticizing each of the above incidents, but I think their comments were taken as saying more about then than about the linguatruder. It certainly never became the issue that it did here with the daughter of a President -- a young woman, who is after all, of no consequence.

The last time I saw someone groping this hard, I was at a drive-in.

[1] I'd happily have linked examples, but "tongue" plus a common last name name turns out to be a rather unpleasant combination to enter in a Google search. For example I recalled a shot of JFK sticking out his tongue, but wasn't sure if it was pre-Presidency... I had no idea there was so much Kennedy erotica out there --or duGaulle! (and after the first Kennedy/DuGaulle slash I was afraid to look anymore)

Edited by Orpheus, 04 August 2004 - 01:34 PM.


#13 Drew

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 01:48 PM

Orpheus, on Aug 4 2004, 01:32 PM, said:

. . . after the first Kennedy/DuGaulle slash I was afraid to look anymore.
Aaaaiiieee! Begone, foul image! I need a very selective lobotomy, STAT!
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#14 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 02:30 PM

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 11:02 AM, said:

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 4 2004, 10:30 AM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

That doesn't make it right. Ms. Kerry needs her mouth washed out with soap. She's shown herself to be rude, insensitive and lacking in manners as far as I'm concerned.

Where is Miss Manners when you really need her, anyway? ;)
I'm glad you tossed that in, I was scratching my head otherwise.  :unsure:
I don't understand what had you scratching your head?
:)  You had your list about the Bush daughter and I was thinking, while scratching my head,  :blush:  what about that Heinz-Kerry?  Her conduct was so much worse.  

Ironic, since I gather that the theme of her speech was for more civility in politics.  :upside:
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#15 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 02:33 PM

Orpheus, on Aug 4 2004, 11:32 AM, said:

This photo of Einstein has sold millions of posters for half a century, and has earned him nothing but fondness.[/URL] Einstein's dislike of being hounded by the press is well known.
A little tidbit I heard on the radio yesterday.

A fellow in  Germany sued to get his passport photo with his tongue sticking out, ala Einstein.

He won.   :disappointed:

But he had to sign a waver.  If he has problems crossing borders, oh well.  :devil:
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#16 Kimmer

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 02:37 PM

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 4 2004, 12:28 PM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 11:02 AM, said:

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 4 2004, 10:30 AM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

That doesn't make it right. Ms. Kerry needs her mouth washed out with soap. She's shown herself to be rude, insensitive and lacking in manners as far as I'm concerned.

Where is Miss Manners when you really need her, anyway? ;)
I'm glad you tossed that in, I was scratching my head otherwise.  :unsure:
I don't understand what had you scratching your head?
:)  You had your list about the Bush daughter and I was thinking, while scratching my head,  :blush:  what about that Heinz-Kerry?  Her conduct was so much worse.  

Ironic, since I gather that the theme of her speech was for more civility in politics.  :upside:
Ahhh, well this thread was about Jenna ... the Ms. Kerry thread was someplace else and I didn't want to be the first to bring it up here. ;)

LOL @ the theme of her speech. I had no idea.  :lol:

#17 Atavus

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 06:02 PM

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 05:19 PM, said:

"Family image", your own image - they are important, but that's something you won't realize until you yourself are a bit older.
I don't know about you, but I was brought up under the impression that making assumptions about people and talking down to them, regardless of age difference, is incredibly rude. So I would ask you not to presume how important my own image is to me based on my, admittedly, young age compared to many members around here.

And even if Jenna did volunteer to campaign, it still would be a stressful time for all involved. And more often than not these events are informative, filled with snide comments about various rivals and utterly humourless. That goes for nearly every country, not just the US. If anything, I would welcome if one of the candidates was, now and again, as silly as Jenna was. It shows a more human side, a fun side, a side people can relate to without the situation looking like a very set up PR event so many politicians families have to go through when it's time to face the press for that special family picture where everyone has that perfect colgate smile on their face.

It would be a different thing entirely if she did it during her father’s inauguration ceremony if he wins again, but while campaigning, well, I don’t see the problem in letting the silly side shine through every now and then. It's not a state banquet, it's getting people exited for her father's (and his parties) politics, it should be allowed to be fun.
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#18 Banapis

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 08:16 PM

Drew, on Aug 4 2004, 11:45 AM, said:

Oh, the press is probably looking for some sort of "moral equivalency" between sticking your tongue out and saying "shove it."  :cool:
Oh, probably not. :cool:

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#19 Kimmer

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 08:31 PM

Atavus, on Aug 4 2004, 04:00 PM, said:

Pickles, on Aug 4 2004, 05:19 PM, said:

"Family image", your own image - they are important, but that's something you won't realize until you yourself are a bit older.
I don't know about you, but I was brought up under the impression that making assumptions about people and talking down to them, regardless of age difference, is incredibly rude. So I would ask you not to presume how important my own image is to me based on my, admittedly, young age compared to many members around here.
My apologies. It was not meant to be a "talking down" to you or to anyone else. In light of your comments, I would like to share the following quote from Miss Manners. I trust that you will find it interesting.

Quote

Etiquette does, indeed, insist that everyone be treated with respect and dignity. It bans rudeness, even on provocation, and the ban extends to using knowledge of etiquette to point out the lapses of others. It requires providing comfort for the guest, in the way of pillows and nibbles, and comfort in the way of sympathy and helpfulness for the afflicted and the bereaved. In that it requires overlooking unintentional faults, it also comforts the well-meaning who might otherwise suffer from self-inflicted embarrassment.

Thank you for pointing out my lapse of etiquette. It is a most appreciated lesson, and one I will try to avoid in the future.

Yours,
Pickles

#20 Ogami

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 09:49 PM

DWF wrote:

It's too bad that Mrs Bush isn't running, she'd probably appeal to more voters than her husband.

She is running, for First Lady. Eight years of Queen Hillary was bad enough, Empress Teresa I can do without.

-Ogami



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