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Kerry Strikes Under the Belt

Election 2004 Kerry Criticizes Bush 9/11 Reading to kids

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#21 Lover of Purple

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:36 PM

I think Bush responded as most of us really would, with shock. The USA hadn't been attacked since Pearl Harbor and suddenly here was an aide saying we were under attack. I defy anyone to say (honestly) that they would have reacted differently.

It's a non-issue with me. Heck, I'm suprised he was able to react as soon as he did. I wish I had the ability to put Kerry in that position and see what he had really done. This is a pretty petty and poor way to try an attack a president, I don't care who is was.

Besides, I think the calm was great for the kids. Yes, I know their parents could explain to them, but imagine you are their age and the President of the United States suddenly stood up and said he had something more important to do. As a child I would have been in tears wondering what was so terrible to call away the president. (Then again, I may have just been a wimpy child.).

#22 G1223

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:37 PM

Then it most likely was helping Ted at the battle of the Line.
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#23 QueenTiye

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 02:53 PM

Lover of Purple, on Aug 6 2004, 03:34 PM, said:

It's a non-issue with me. Heck, I'm suprised he was able to react as soon as he did. I wish I had the ability to put Kerry in that position and see what he had really done. This is a pretty petty and poor way to try an attack a president, I don't care who is was.
I agree one hundred percent.  

No matter how anyone reacts in a moment like that - it's their response... human beings are human beings, no matter who voted or didn't for them. :(

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#24 Kosh

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 03:47 PM

Never mind. I figured out what G was talking about.

Edited by Kosh, 06 August 2004 - 03:48 PM.

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#25 Rov Judicata

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:15 PM

Thanks to Red State (as the name implies, it's a partisan blog: http://www.redstate.org ), I found this CNN transcript:

http://www.cnn.com/T.../08/lkl.00.html

Quote

KERRY: I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting -- we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation.

... the Pentagon was hit at 9:43, while the second plane hit the WTC at 9:03. So by Kerry's own admission, he sat around for forty minutes.

Is it relevant? Not really; just like Bush, there's not much he could have done. But he says then that "Nobody could think". It seems brutally unfair and hypocritical to criticize Bush, in that context.

And also, a reminder. John Kerry, just a few days ago:

Quote

"I want to address these next words directly to President George W. Bush.

In the weeks ahead, let's be optimists, not just opponents. Let's build unity in the American family, not angry division. Let's honor this nation's diversity. Let's respect one another. And let's never misuse for political purposes the most precious document in American history, the Constitution of the United States.

My friends, the high road may be harder, but it leads to a better place."

Harping on the seven minutes hardly matches his earlier rhetoric. Yeesh.

Edited by Javert Rovinski, 06 August 2004 - 04:15 PM.

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#26 Shalamar

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:44 PM

I am surprized that no one else here has come up with what is probably the real reason Bush sat for roughly 7 minutes. Yes he knew he needed to move, make decissions, get information and the resulting actions in hand and going...

However there is another force at work there that many people for get about. The USSS...they probably had the 'word' at the same time the aide did. and they needed, I feel , those minutes to make sure that the planes weren't ment to be a 'draw out' factor, making the president move early, and possibly setting it up for a waiting assassin to take out the President as he left before the USSS's careful plans said he would be.

I'll bet during those 7 minutes the Protection Detail was frantically rescouring / resanitizing the area. And Bush probably knew it, and let his professionals do their job.
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#27 GiGi

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 04:45 PM

Color me confused, all Kerry is saying is what he thought he would do if in the same position, just as a few folks in this thread are saying.  Simply stating their response, or more probably how they hoped they would respond.  

I didn't see anywhere in the article where Kerry says "Bush should have done such and such"

Tall about yesh!

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#28 Lover of Purple

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:38 PM

It's the "implied" message he is sending that has people speaking up. By saying "I would have..." He is saying (without saying) that President Bush did the wrong thing. Plus he isn't sayinge what he thinks he would have done. He is saying that is WHAT he ould have done.

Edited by Lover of Purple, 06 August 2004 - 05:39 PM.


#29 Rhea

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:43 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 6 2004, 09:01 AM, said:

FTR, Bush stayed for a few minutes after the SECOND plane hit.

What critics fail to do is take the next logical step: What should Bush have done? Slipped into his Superman suit, gone back in time and prevented the terrorists from ever being born?
Nope. He might have acted like the President right away, though. I mean, for God's sake, all the ordinary people like you and me were glued to any source of news we could find from the second we found out.

The President should have gotten up, left, and done his job (and no, I didn't see Moore's movie and don't plan to) - IMMEDIATELY. I would have wanted information, wouldn't you??

Edited by Rhea, 06 August 2004 - 05:44 PM.

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#30 Delvo

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:45 PM

Behoold how well and easily this stuff works anyway... :sarcasm:

#31 Lover of Purple

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:54 PM

Funny, it was no big deal at the time and now Kerry amd Moore have made it an issue. Fir heavens sake, the information has to be gathered and confirmed. That takes time.

And I guess Kerry and Moore thinks that only machines should be president so they don't have to worry about acting human. (No, they didn't say that. But only a machine would react as they expect. Humans pause and think). What if it had turned out to be nothing? Then everyone would be saying that Bush should have sat there until he got more facts.

See, this is my problem with how we treat our Presidents. Whatever they do we can find fault in. That goes for BOTH sides. We, as a country, tend to nit pick the little things and tear our leaders down. We are doing it to Bush. We did it to Clinton and Reagan. No wonder other countries show our leaders no respect, we don't.

Sorry, rant over. I'm all better. ;)

#32 Rhea

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 06:01 PM

Lover of Purple, on Aug 6 2004, 02:52 PM, said:

Funny, it was no big deal at the time and now Kerry amd Moore have made it an issue. Fir heavens sake, the information has to be gathered and confirmed. That takes time.
It was no big deal at the time because nobody knew about it.  ;)
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#33 Caretaker

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 06:29 PM

It also wasn't an issue or even discussed until a reporter brought it up.  Speaking of which, I just say Bush on the NBC Nightly News blowing off the reporter who asked him about whether the White House would denounce the anti-Kerry Vietnam Veterans ad.

#34 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:41 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 6 2004, 02:13 PM, said:

It seems brutally unfair and hypocritical to criticize Bush, in that context.
I just heard about this a short while ago, wow....what a complete lack of class. Astounding. :eek4:

Heck, I saw Teresa on Hardball and she had more compassion for what the situation would have been, than her thoughtless hubby.  Although she contends Kerry would have left rightaway......damn easy for folks to say that.   Double yesh!

The interesting thing about the attached article are the back to back sentences describing how the conference is about getting more diversity, then how Kerry was interupted by cheers and applause 27 times.

Clearly, it's not diversity in opinion they're looking for.  :lol:

....and with that, I'll conclude my cluck, cluck, clucking  :huh:
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#35 Ogami

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 09:46 PM

Javert wrote:

Thanks to Red State (as the name implies, it's a partisan blog: http://www.redstate.org ), I found this CNN transcript:

I'm such a news nut. You have my many thanks for SPARING me looking that up on CNN, which I was about to do to add to this thread.

Kerry admitted to Larry King he couldn't think! So much for Bush's dire indecision...

Kerry could have a tiny chance to become President, if they could just duct tape his mouth through November 3rd. But there is NO WAY this guy can campaign and talk and actually gain voters.

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#36 Griffin

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 09:54 PM

Also, what could he have done that the professionals hadn't already?

I would lay odds that the military and FAA, after reaction time in factored in, started scrambling to get the situation dealt with without having to be told to do so. We don't live in a "do only what  you are told" society and I'm sure that there were reactions that would be logical that didn't necessarily have to be directed down from the President....

#37 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 10:18 PM

Quote

Cait:Like I said, this is NON-ISSUE for me, BUT he could have excused himself and found out how many more plans were suspected, whether or not there'd have to be an order to shoot down possible terrorists controlled planes, get a real briefing on what was known at that moment.. get on top of it, etc.
And he would have gotten a real briefing from?  The simple fact is at this point no one knew what was going on exactly.  NORAD the nerve center for the sir defense of North America was racing to figure out what was going on and if more was to come.  The system for the defense of the country was running on automatic as people pulled out contingency plans and did their jobs.  Do you really want the President upsetting that balance by getting on top of the situation?  Better to let the system work and update the President as reliable information comes in.  And at the time what existed was chaos rather than information.

Quote

Rhea: The President should have gotten up, left, and done his job (and no, I didn't see Moore's movie and don't plan to) - IMMEDIATELY. I would have wanted information, wouldn't you??

As noted by Shal the USSS may have very well told Bush to sit still while they secured the area and made sure he was not the next target.
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#38 Cait

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 10:46 PM

~shakes head~ then chuckles..........

One last time, it is a non-issue for me, those 7 minutes were spent they way they were spent.  What I find it amazing, is that so many try to give so many reasons for 'why' he sat there.  All of them could be true and maybe he was just in shock.  We'll never really know and to speculate may bring *you* some comfort, but it isn't necessary to explain it to me.  I don't have an issue with it.  It is you who seem to need to explain it away.

As to letting the machinery of government do it's job...... I'm absolutely sure that is exactly what occurred, there are protocols in place for a good reason.  But, to state that the president had nothing to do, is just a fallacy.  

I have no issue with the minutes, or what he did do.  My comments were directed at the members posting in this thread who seem to need to find a 'good' reason for why he sat there.  I find that almost as interesting as the other members who question his leadership because he *did* sit there.  Both sides miss the point.

You all have been fighting the other extreme in politics so long you can't even speak to a Centrist, you can't see the center any more.  I have no issue with the time he sat there, what I pointed out was, that while you all have excellent reasons for why he sat there, he could have also gotten up and gone to work.  It's not a criticism of what he DID do, it's an answer to those of YOU who said there was nothing he could do.

My comments aren't about BUSH at all, they are about you guys.  He could have done any number of things, he did what he did, and that is fine.  But to claim there was NOTHING else he could do is just plain false.  

To say that another way might be better is Monday morning quarterbacking, it happened the way it happened.  No one can say how it might have been done better.  Which is why I have no issue with it.  But logic tells us that there WERE other things that could have occurred.  It's really simple as that.  It doesn't mean those other things are better or worse, just that there were other things that could have been done.  Bush wasn't wrong, the posters in this thread who claimed there was NOTHING else he could do are mistaken.  That was my point and my ONLY point.

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#39 Delvo

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 10:46 PM

Ogami, on Aug 6 2004, 08:44 PM, said:

Kerry admitted to Larry King he couldn't think! So much for Bush's dire indecision...
He was for indecision before he was against it...

OK, seriously, I'll bet that this newer version is the truth and the old quote was the lie. Why would he seriously think now that waiting a few minutes was wrong? Because Bush did it. Seriously, that's it. Why would he have pretended back then to be unable to think for 40 minutes? Because playing up the melodrama was the in thing to do back then, to make himself appear to be emotional, sensetive, sympathetic, and a man of the people.

#40 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 10:59 PM

SubwayCait, on Aug 6 2004, 08:44 PM, said:

........I have no issue with the minutes, or what he did do. 

(snip)

He could have done any number of things, he did what he did, and that is fine. 
Sounds fine to me.  :hugs:
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