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Sudden Bush Hatred Fatigue Syndrome

Bush Public Opinion Bush Fatigue Syndrome

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#301 Drew

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 11:47 PM

Hambil, on Aug 12 2004, 11:35 PM, said:

Drew, on Aug 13 2004, 04:26 AM, said:

I fear that the Bush-hatred that they've whipped up has now become an out-of-control beast--and not even the Democrats who started it can stop it.
I blame my hatred of Bush on Bush. Is it so hard to believe that I could come by it honestly and through rational thought, as opposed to being programmed by my 'party leadership'? And that I am far from alone?
It has nothing to do with being "programmed." It has to do with hearing it so often that it just becomes second nature. (Or wait . . . maybe that is "programmed.") For example, Rhea recently stated that one of the reasons she doesn't like (or was that "hates") George Bush is his ban on stem cell research. But as I have been attempting to point out, there is no ban on stem cell research. Only on federal funding. And only--as I have learned today--on using federal funding to harvest new embryonic stem cells. The federal government continues to fund research on embryonic stem cells that have already been harvested, and in fact, it was George Bush himself who increased spending on that program. The federal funding ban was in effect before George Bush became president, and Bush actually broke that ban to allow a certain amount of federal funding. So what the Democrats talked about during the convention is a blatant lie. That's no basis for hating George Bush. If I were you, I'd hate the people who lied to you.

The problem is that the lie is now out there, spreading, out of control. I doubt even a correction by the Democratic leadership on this point would change the minds of people who really want to hate George Bush.

Edited by Drew, 12 August 2004 - 11:54 PM.

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#302 GiGi

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:17 AM

Drew, on Aug 12 2004, 09:20 PM, said:

My apologies, GiGi. The fact that you said DWF's reply to me was "sanity" implied that my post was "insanity."
Okay Drew, I didn't see it that way at all, just wanted to make sure.   :cool:
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#303 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:25 AM

Drew, on Aug 12 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 11:26 PM, said:

BTW, Drew I really wish I could pm you because I think we'd both benefit from a private chat.
I'm bad at that. 'sides, I ain't got no problems wit' you. You're getting downright fluffy-bunny!
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*checks evil monitor*  

Dang that LOP he went and stole all my EVIL JUICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sob*

Now I need a new fluffy avatar!

:hehe:
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#304 Hambil

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:33 AM

Drew, on Aug 13 2004, 04:45 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 12 2004, 11:35 PM, said:

Drew, on Aug 13 2004, 04:26 AM, said:

I fear that the Bush-hatred that they've whipped up has now become an out-of-control beast--and not even the Democrats who started it can stop it.
I blame my hatred of Bush on Bush. Is it so hard to believe that I could come by it honestly and through rational thought, as opposed to being programmed by my 'party leadership'? And that I am far from alone?
It has nothing to do with being "programmed." It has to do with hearing it so often that it just becomes second nature. (Or wait . . . maybe that is "programmed.") For example, Rhea recently stated that one of the reasons she doesn't like (or was that "hates") George Bush is his ban on stem cell research. But as I have been attempting to point out, there is no ban on stem cell research. Only on federal funding. And only--as I have learned today--on using federal funding to harvest new embryonic stem cells. The federal government continues to fund research on embryonic stem cells that have already been harvested, and in fact, it was George Bush himself who increased spending on that program. The federal funding ban was in effect before George Bush became president, and Bush actually broke that ban to allow a certain amount of federal funding. So what the Democrats talked about during the convention is a blatant lie. That's no basis for hating George Bush. If I were you, I'd hate the people who lied to you.

The problem is that the lie is now out there, spreading, out of control. I doubt even a correction by the Democratic leadership on this point would change the minds of people who really want to hate George Bush.
Okay. What's your spin (not meant to mean the negative thing it means a lot with politics) on the Gay Marriage ban amendment? The religous dogma he uses constantly? The faith-based initiatives? The largest deficit in US history? The Tax cut for the rich? The War in Iraq with no exit plan? The squandered good will after 9/11?

Are any of those, and many more I can mention, things I can dislike him for? Or, more lies?

#305 Griffin

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 02:03 AM

Hambil, on Aug 13 2004, 12:31 AM, said:

What's your spin on:
If I may :)

Quote

the Gay Marriage ban amendment?

I think that he was trying to get through what he believes is what most Americans want. I heard (someplace) That are like 15 states that are discussing Constitutional Amendmentson the matter. While that isn't a whopping majority of the Nation that is a healthy chunk and it's only time before the majority of the rest of the states start in on the issue.

Quote

The religous dogma he uses constantly?

I really haven't heard alot of "religious" dogma lately :( Most was just "Good Vs Evil"...And if you try and say he was exaggerating when he said that  terrorists are evil I'll have to smitest thou :D

Quote

The faith-based initiatives?

A vast majority of the country is in some sort of religion. I'm not all up to date on this issue but were there any kinds of rules AGAINST certain religions? If not, then that was simply reaching out to where alot of people could get help. I think alot of people would accept help from their church alot faster than they would accept help from their Uncle Sam....

Quote

The largest deficit in US history?

The fact that the economy crashed after 9/11 and because of the poor handling by the Democrats caused alot of that, methinks.

Quote

The Tax cut for the rich?

I've said this before: has someone without a job or money ever given you a job? Have they ever invested in your company?

Quote

The War in Iraq with no exit plan?

Gee, let's see. We still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea, just to name a few. We had to build West Germany's democracy, Japan's democracy and I don't hear anyone complaining that we still have sizeable presence in those countries. I mean up until Kosovo we didn't even let Germany fly outside of their own country...

Quote

The squandered good will after 9/11?

France will hate us til the day Germany tries to take them over again...plain and simple. If we don't have good will from preventing them from speaking German TWICE I don't know how we would get it....

#306 HubcapDave

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:20 PM

Delvo, on Aug 12 2004, 06:56 PM, said:

Rommie's Ronin, on Aug 12 2004, 05:17 PM, said:

Delvo said:

(What does "coyote ugly" mean, anyway?)

Coyoteugly is one of the 18 admins over at TK.
I saw that when I followed the link... but what did the name come from?
I'm suprised no one has stepped up and answered this very important question!

"Coyote Ugly" refers to a woman who is so ugly that if a man were to wake up next to her (after a night of drunken debauchery)  with his arm under her head, he would chew his arm off, rather than risk waking her up. Teh name comes from the fact that a coyote will try to chew off its leg if it gets stuck in a trap.

#307 Hambil

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:37 PM

Quote

If I may :)

the Gay Marriage ban amendment?

I think that he was trying to get through what he believes is what most Americans want. I heard (someplace) That are like 15 states that are discussing Constitutional Amendmentson the matter. While that isn't a whopping majority of the Nation that is a healthy chunk and it's only time before the majority of the rest of the states start in on the issue.

When it comes to human rights, what most American's want is not important. I, personally, will fight these kinds of things with everything I've got. It is no different in my mind than trying to repeal the 13th, 14th, or 15th amendment.

Quote

The religous dogma he uses constantly?

I really haven't heard alot of "religious" dogma lately :( Most was just "Good Vs Evil"...And if you try and say he was exaggerating when he said that  terrorists are evil I'll have to smitest thou :D
I can link to sights with page after page after page of quotes from Bush that have Gods name in them, or reference religion in some way. Do I really need to? Is his devotion actually in question?

Quote

The faith-based initiatives?

A vast majority of the country is in some sort of religion. I'm not all up to date on this issue but were there any kinds of rules AGAINST certain religions? If not, then that was simply reaching out to where alot of people could get help. I think alot of people would accept help from their church alot faster than they would accept help from their Uncle Sam....
This is talked about in another thread, but G.W. has said "witchcraft is not a religion", and so far no pagan groups have 'qualified' for faith-based programs. The director of the faith-based initiatives has said that he has never seen a pagan faith-based group, and that pagan's aren't interested in helping the poor.

Quote

The largest deficit in US history?

The fact that the economy crashed after 9/11 and because of the poor handling by the Democrats caused alot of that, methinks.
Blame the democrats. Nice. Trouble is, the public has always blamed the sitting president when times comes to vote. Guess they're not completely sheep.

Quote

The Tax cut for the rich?
I've said this before: has someone without a job or money ever given you a job? Have they ever invested in your company?
The rich already have money, or they wouldn't be rich. So the premise of your objection is flawed, rendering the questions posed moot.

Quote

The War in Iraq with no exit plan?

Gee, let's see. We still have troops in Germany, Japan and Korea, just to name a few. We had to build West Germany's democracy, Japan's democracy and I don't hear anyone complaining that we still have sizeable presence in those countries. I mean up until Kosovo we didn't even let Germany fly outside of their own country...
Except, we where mislead about the costs of Iraq, and the plan for cleanup. Oil was going to pay for it, etc. etc. And nobody mentioned nation building when they sold us the bill of goods. It came up long after the war was over and no WMD were found.

Quote

The squandered good will after 9/11?

France will hate us til the day Germany tries to take them over again...plain and simple. If we don't have good will from preventing them from speaking German TWICE I don't know how we would get it....
You think I'm talking about France? Yes, I think we wasted good will with the world, and I dont' like that. But I'm talking about ME! Great presidents us national trageties to unite the people, not divide them. After 9/11 I was will, and ready, to back G.W... even though his religious responses really pissed me off. He could have had me, but he didn't seem to care. He just used my good will to push a partisan agenda. He used me.

Edited by Hambil, 13 August 2004 - 03:41 PM.


#308 Rhea

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:47 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 09:23 PM, said:

Drew, on Aug 12 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 11:26 PM, said:

BTW, Drew I really wish I could pm you because I think we'd both benefit from a private chat.
I'm bad at that. 'sides, I ain't got no problems wit' you. You're getting downright fluffy-bunny!
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*checks evil monitor*  

Dang that LOP he went and stole all my EVIL JUICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sob*

Now I need a new fluffy avatar!

:hehe:
AAAAAAAAAGGHHHHHHHHHHH! Not a purple bunny!  :eek:  :eek2:  Good Lord, Lil, you'll be handing out warm fuzzies next and I'll have to find you and drag you somewhere where there are professionals who can verify that you're not a pod person!   :devil:
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#309 Lover of Purple

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 03:50 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 09:23 PM, said:

Drew, on Aug 12 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 11:26 PM, said:

BTW, Drew I really wish I could pm you because I think we'd both benefit from a private chat.
I'm bad at that. 'sides, I ain't got no problems wit' you. You're getting downright fluffy-bunny!
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*checks evil monitor*  

Dang that LOP he went and stole all my EVIL JUICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sob*

Now I need a new fluffy avatar!

:hehe:
I didn't steal it. That means......OH NO!!!  :eek4:

Evil LoP now as ALL of the EVIL!!!!   :eek:

Run for your lives. :hehe:

#310 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 05:27 PM

Lover of Purple, on Aug 13 2004, 01:48 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 09:23 PM, said:

Drew, on Aug 12 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 11:26 PM, said:

BTW, Drew I really wish I could pm you because I think we'd both benefit from a private chat.
I'm bad at that. 'sides, I ain't got no problems wit' you. You're getting downright fluffy-bunny!
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*checks evil monitor*  

Dang that LOP he went and stole all my EVIL JUICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sob*

Now I need a new fluffy avatar!

:hehe:
I didn't steal it. That means......OH NO!!!  :eek4:

Evil LoP now as ALL of the EVIL!!!!   :eek:

Run for your lives. :hehe:
Chaos shall now be unleashed as the EEEEEEEEEEEVIL of the LOP slowly seeps into all crevices of ExIsle.

The end IS truly nigh!


:eek2:
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#311 G1223

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 05:28 PM

LOP I have my own bit of  evil. So do not worry he does not have all of it. Just yours and Lil's. Which while on a scale unknown to mortal men it is not all of it.
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#312 Griffin

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 10:56 PM

But Hambil on the Tax the Rich thing. Honestly, while giving a minimum wage earner a tax break would be good, MOST appreciated thank you since I am in that category,  I honestly don't think it would help kickstart the economy. They'd buy a couple bucks extra groceries.

If they give a $20,000/yr worker a 1% tax break thats $200...

Give a $200,000/yr person a 1% break and that's $2,000...10X as much to spend in the economy.

Low-income people use their tax returns to buy a tv or some extra clothes. Rich people buy a yacht or a car or invest....100 $200,000/yr earners @ 1% is $200,000 more than can be pumped into the economy or put in a bank or invested

Now, since I started working, my tax refund has gone up thanks to Mr. Bush, so saying that "low-income americans" don't benefit from the tax breaks is a load of hooey...

#313 Hambil

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 11:00 PM

Sure. But, being (until the last couple years) in the $100,000 category (upper middle-class?), I can tell you I got screwed big time. Close to 33% ($33,000 dollars a year) in taxes. And that's just income tax. And the tax cut didn't do squat for me. That's the tax bracket that's really funding the country.

Edited by Hambil, 13 August 2004 - 11:01 PM.


#314 Griffin

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 03:23 PM

Hambil--I think that the $100,000 category is prolly gonna get screwed no matter what. I think they would be considered "too rich" by the Democrats for "middle-class" tax cuts and are obviously considered in the middle where Republican tax cuts don't seem to be reaching either.

#315 tennyson

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 03:12 PM

I honestly do not see anymore "religous dogma" in George H.W. Bush's speech's than I did in his father's or Reagans or Kennedy's or Teddy Roosevelt's or Woodrow Wilson's or any of the presidents of the United States who have been a part of the long tradition of religous themed speechifying in this country that goes back to its founding. These earlier presidents have invoked "god" and religous terminology in thier speeches just as much if not significantly more than the current president. It didn't mean they were trying to change this nation into a theoracracy or destroy the seperation of church and state or anything else of that sort. They were simply engaging in an expected discourse, using common metaphors and phrasings sprinkled with ways of expressing themselves that they would find comfortable.
In my own understanding of his speeches, I simply do not find them frightening or see in them some great cause for alarm. I've read the same words in dozens of presidential speeches before in my history classes from Kennedy's bibical reference to the "Long Twilight Struggle" to Wilson's use of "god-given rights to democracy" in his speeches after World War 1 in relation to the forming of new nations based on ethnic boundaries. I see the same metaphors and references and it simply looks to me like a rheortical strategy with no more sinister purpose.
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#316 Delvo

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 05:16 PM

It's a matter of context. The country has long been gradually getting less Christian than it was before, and in recent times the non-Christian segment of the population has had a growing anti-Christian subsegment. People in the last few decades have become more and more predisposed to perceive Christianity as a threat; much of the "cultural revolution" of the 60s and 70s was seen as a matter of breaking free from some pointless happiness-squelching impositions of Christianity, and in the 80s we got a President who, by all accounts from both sides, not only mentioned God and religion but openly talked as if Christianity demanded loyalty to his party and country and loyalty to his party and country demanded Christian religiosity. Since then, a politician, especially one that was either conservative or Republican, could say the same religious thing that someone else said long ago, but it would mean something different to many of his/her listeners because of how they're set up to perceive such things. And (s)he has to go into the speech knowing that ahead of time when choosing whether to do it or not. So this one isn't exactly just Bush-hatred, most examples of which are usually tied to something specific to the Bush Presidency; it's just a reflection of the fact that, in this era, religion has become one of the big dichotomizing forces in American politics.



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