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Religion, and 9/11.

Religion 9/11

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#81 Bad Wolf

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 07:11 PM

Cyberhippie, on Aug 12 2004, 04:10 PM, said:

The problem is Lil, that unlike Christianity, Islam's hold on goverments was never broken.

With the destruction of the papal states and the wholesale disenchantment with church run goverment, Christianity has essentially been given the boot out of goverment.
Christianity still has plenty of political clout.  But I hear you about Islam.  But no one can force separation of church and state on people who don't want it (Cait and I had this discussion last week I believe).  Unfortunately there are no easy answers but imho letting the state dictate religious belief just isn't it.


Quote

Because these days, objecting to a religion is seen by a lot fo people as attacking them as people. When I vehemently disagree with the bible or Qu'ran, I am not attacking the people who follow it, i'm disagreeing with the work itself, but I don't feel most people get that distinction and I end up labelled as a hatemonger or a bigot.

You just need to keep being clear about the distinction.  If you make clear over and over and over that when you disagree with the bible you are not attacking people who follow it and people who follow it choose to feel you are still attacking them, that becomes THEIR choice.  I would hate for you to stop voicing your opinion.  Just my own opinion.  :)

Lil
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#82 Lord Ravensburg

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:31 AM

Hambil, on Aug 12 2004, 10:50 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 10:33 PM, said:

Going back to what HM said about fringe elements, I'd like to ask Hambil and those who agree with him some questions:

1.  Do you blame all Muslims for 9-11?

2.  Do you attribute the conduct of fanatics to an entire belief system?

Lil
I do agree with both those statements.
Preposterous.

#83 Hambil

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:42 AM

Lord Ravensburg, on Aug 13 2004, 05:29 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 12 2004, 10:50 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Aug 12 2004, 10:33 PM, said:

Going back to what HM said about fringe elements, I'd like to ask Hambil and those who agree with him some questions:

1.  Do you blame all Muslims for 9-11?

2.  Do you attribute the conduct of fanatics to an entire belief system?

Lil
I do agree with both those statements.
Preposterous.
Okay. I think (can't remember what I was thinking when I typed that) it came out backwards.

I do not blame all muslims. And I do not blame the entire belief system. Everything I said after that came out right though. Sorry :(

#84 Lord Ravensburg

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 12:45 AM

Thank you for the clarification.

#85 QueenTiye

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Posted 13 August 2004 - 01:00 AM

Cyberhippie, on Aug 12 2004, 06:54 PM, said:

okay Lil, here you go.

Islam, as does Christianity, compells it's followers to go out and convert the heathen, and in the case of Islam, the Qu'Ran specifically allows it's followers to use just about any means necessary to enter the land of the infidel and seize power, and install Sharia law.

Sharia law, which denies rights to women, which makes a mockery of free speech, of fair trial, and of being innocent till proven guilty scares the hell out of me, and it's already the law in half a dozen countries.

and what scares me even more is that despite the fact that 99% of islamics are probably perfectly ordinary people, they have a holy book that permits violence against the non-believer.

it doesn't matter if it will actually screw the pooch, it matters that it *can* screw the pooch somewhere down the line with FULL support of written scripture.

i figured that statement wouldn't be appreciated.
I started to NOT reply to this, because the "Sharia law" and the "Qur'an" are two different things.  I am personally opposed to the creature that is being called today "Sharia law" because I think it a mockery of the Qur'an. However, since the Qur'an itself is being called into question...

As with nearly any Sacred Writing, taking a quote in isolation from the book is going to give the wrong idea.  This is probably true of any book, but with Sacredi Literature it is MORE true, because the WHOLE of the Revelation IS the Revelation.  

So saying, - can you quote the passages that you refer to that:

1. "specifically allows it's followers to use just about any means necessary to enter the land of the infidel and seize power, and install Sharia law"?

2. "permits violence against the non-believer"?


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