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Kerry's Economic Plan

Election 2004 John Kerry Economic Policy

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#21 G1223

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:09 PM

The lower tax rate makes the situation where they invest.


Basically CH the only way to tax the rich and make it hurt is to seize their assets and property. But since that is not how the tax system works and if it did would be changed due to the efforts of lobbying groups.( Paid will Tens of Billions of dollars to influnce congress to change the law.((Influence means bribe)))
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#22 Ogami

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:10 PM

Cyberhippie wrote:

QUOTE (Ogami @ Aug 23 2004, 07:07 PM)
That would be the same rich that already pay a majority of federal and other income taxes.


You are kidding right?

The top 50% of American taxpayers pay 96.1% of all Federal Income tax.

The bottom 50% of American taxpayers pay 3.9% of all Federal Income tax

No spin, no hoax, no trick. When Kerry says it's unfair if the rich have their taxes cut, he's obviously a raving moron, because the top 50% of taxpayers pay all the taxes, period. Of course any tax cut will benefit the rich!

http://www.taxfounda...ncometable.html

#23 Godeskian

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:10 PM

Quote

Basically CH the only way to tax the rich and make it hurt is to seize their assets and property.

Wouldn't happen. most rich people don't own anything of value. THey simply controll the companies, corporations and business entities that do.

There are someharsh  lessons the rich have learnt about protecting their assets.

besides, why would you WANT to hurt the rich? n :suspect:

Edited by Cyberhippie, 23 August 2004 - 03:11 PM.

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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:12 PM

Ogami, on Aug 23 2004, 09:08 PM, said:

The top 50% of American taxpayers pay 96.1% of all Federal Income tax.

The bottom 50% of American taxpayers pay 3.9% of all Federal Income tax
ah, I consider 'the rich' to be the top 5% (ish) not the upper middle class that are covered in the 'top 50%'

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#25 Ogami

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:16 PM

Hambil wrote:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Ogami is not responding in a way that is conducive to discussion of the issues.

Ah, but I am not ignorant on John Edwards' record as a trial lawyer. His is that of a phony sleazy trial lawyer filing frivolous lawsuits and relying on gullible juries to bilk huge judgments out of private companies. Edwards would then pocket the majority of those proceeds, precious little would get to his actual clients.

Tell me these facts are nasty if you want, I'm just going by the man's quite public record.

-Ogami

#26 Hambil

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:00 PM

Ogami, on Aug 23 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

Hambil wrote:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Ogami is not responding in a way that is conducive to discussion of the issues.

Ah, but I am not ignorant on John Edwards' record as a trial lawyer. His is that of a phony sleazy trial lawyer filing frivolous lawsuits and relying on gullible juries to bilk huge judgments out of private companies. Edwards would then pocket the majority of those proceeds, precious little would get to his actual clients.

Tell me these facts are nasty if you want, I'm just going by the man's quite public record.

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He did no such thing.

#27 Hambil

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:07 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 23 2004, 12:58 PM, said:

Hambil-- It's easy to have good rhetoric, but this doesn't approach the level of a plan. Until Kerry distributes numbers on how he can put in place his health plan, put up trade barriers, expand the size of the military AND reduce the deficit, he's just bluffing.

This article does an excellent job on pointing out the problems: http://www.thestate....004/9256496.htm

I'm not saying Bush has a good plan. He doesn't. But Kerry's in the same boat, so to speak.
Actually, he goes into a fair amount of details, in downloaded PDFs as I pointed out in my original post. Here is another one: http://www.johnkerry.../tax_reform.pdf

#28 Rhea

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:39 PM

Hambil, on Aug 23 2004, 10:11 AM, said:

Ogami said:

Thanks to greedy, filthy-rich trial lawyers like John Edwards
Just in case you wanted to know, this is where I stopped reading your post about the 'issues'. Next.
LOL!!! Me too.  :cool:
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#29 Rhea

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:41 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Aug 23 2004, 11:54 AM, said:

CH:

Quote

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One-third of President Bush's tax cuts have gone to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans, shifting more burden to middle-income taxpayers, congressional analysts said on Friday.

The report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office and calculations by congressional Democrats based on the CBO findings fueled the debate over the cuts between Bush and his Democratic challenger in November, Sen. John Kerry.

Using the CBO's figures, Democrats in Congress said the top 1 percent, with incomes averaging $1.2 million per year, will receive an average tax cut of $78,460 this year, and have seen their share of the total tax burden fall roughly 2 percentage points to 20.1 percent.

In contrast, the report showed that households in the middle 20 percent, with incomes averaging $57,000 per year, will receive an average cut of $1,090 while their share of the tax burden would move to 10.5 percent from 10.4 percent.

Source: http://wireservice.w...w=wn_wire_story

So now with Bush's heinous tax cuts, the richested 1% are only paying 20% of income tax. Horrors!
Bush's tax cuts are horrific because they came at a time when the Republicans were acting like they accuse the Democrats of acting - out-of-control spending, a war that's not even included in the monstrous deficit, and any accountant will tell you that giving back money with one hand while you mortgage the store not only for now but for years to come doesn't add up.
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#30 Delvo

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:48 PM

Hambil, on Aug 23 2004, 05:05 PM, said:

Actually, he goes into a fair amount of details
Not the kind we need though. Yes, on that page he goes from espousing income redistribution in general to giving more numerical examples of how he wants to redistribute it, but what's missing is any reason to believe income redistribution will work now any better than it ever has before.

#31 Delvo

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:49 PM

Rhea, on Aug 23 2004, 08:39 PM, said:

Bush's tax cuts are horrific because they came at a time when the Republicans were acting like they accuse the Democrats of acting - out-of-control spending
What was horrific, then, wasn't the tax cut, but the liberal spending spree! You admit it! :p

#32 DWF

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 10:13 PM

Delvo, on Aug 23 2004, 10:47 PM, said:

Rhea, on Aug 23 2004, 08:39 PM, said:

Bush's tax cuts are horrific because they came at a time when the Republicans were acting like they accuse the Democrats of acting - out-of-control spending
What was horrific, then, wasn't the tax cut, but the liberal spending spree! You admit it! :p
Some tax cut, it didn't put any money in my pocket in the long run. And that's not what Rhea said, and you know it. :p
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#33 Hambil

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 10:46 PM

Delvo, on Aug 23 2004, 07:46 PM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 23 2004, 05:05 PM, said:

Actually, he goes into a fair amount of details
Not the kind we need though. Yes, on that page he goes from espousing income redistribution in general to giving more numerical examples of how he wants to redistribute it, but what's missing is any reason to believe income redistribution will work now any better than it ever has before.
And Bush can show detail on how his plan (whatever it is) works? You know better. The economy is complicated. Any theory can only be 'proved' to a point. You said you wanted more detail, I showed you there was more detail. Who's moving the goal posts now?

#34 Hambil

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 10:48 PM

Delvo, on Aug 23 2004, 07:47 PM, said:

Rhea, on Aug 23 2004, 08:39 PM, said:

Bush's tax cuts are horrific because they came at a time when the Republicans were acting like they accuse the Democrats of acting - out-of-control spending
What was horrific, then, wasn't the tax cut, but the liberal spending spree! You admit it! :p
Tax-cut along with a balanced budget are fine. I'd love to pay less taxes. However, this is not what the Rebulicans have done, or propose to do. They are clearly no longer the party of fiscal conservatives.

Edited by Hambil, 23 August 2004 - 10:48 PM.


#35 Delvo

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 11:02 PM

Hambil, on Aug 23 2004, 09:44 PM, said:

And Bush can show detail on how his plan (whatever it is) works?
No, because it doesn't for one of the same reasons the Democrats' plans don't work: spending increases faster than any other monetary figure such as government revenue growth, GNP growth, and the interest rate(s).

(I suppose I could call that a topic-shift, but I don't quite think so, since it is an issue-based comparison even if the thread title didn't indicate that would be happening; it's just a natural drift to compare them on the same issue in the same place. BUT I do think you just made the mistake of ascribing beliefs to me according to stereotype without basis.)

Quote

You said you wanted more detail, I showed you there was more detail. Who's moving the goal posts now?
And there's another reason for my last sentence above; that wasn't me you were responding to in the first place, but you didn't seem to notice. It's like you're responding to Generic Conservative™.

Quote

Tax-cut along with a balanced budget are fine. I'd love to pay less taxes. However, this is not what the Rebulicans have done, or propose to do. They are clearly no longer the party of fiscal conservatives.
Indeed, for the good of conservatism, the best thing that could be done now would be the destruction of the Republican Party :devil: to make room for one that will actually resist liberalism instead of cowering to it and going along with it. But, although Bush is clearly no conservative, I'm not sure whether the problem with the rest is more that they aren't conservative, or that they are but they're just spineless about advocating and enacting it.



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