94 replies to this topic

[Hambil]

Everytime a rational post anyone makes is countered with partisan spew, feel free to respond with RIDDIKULUS! and link this thread. I see no other way to deal with the issue, based on the last few days.

My point? Some people are not interested in debate. I don't know what they are interested in. Causing disruption maybe? But, I've grown tired of how they keep the issues from being discussed, and how they show no desire or ability to have civil logical conversation. So, I'm using the Harry Potter Riddikulus spell on them (scares away bogarts). Saves me time for real conversations too. Feel free to join in, Republican, Democrat or other.

Edited by Hambil, 25 August 2004 - 12:05 PM.

[Godeskian]

uhm, how is posting more inflaming rethoric going to help?

[Hambil]

You have a better idea?

[Ro-Astarte]

How about calling it what it is?

"Talking Point #25"  or something along the same lines will make the point without bringing in the OTT quality that will also derail debate.

Ro

[Christopher]

So basically your protest to inflammatory, anti-discussion behavior is going to be to sink to the same level and add to the disruption?  How is that a protest?  It's more like an endorsement.

Fighting fire with fire is a quick way to burn down the whole Isle.  A better way to fight the fire is to deprive it of fuel.  If people " keep the issues from being discussed, and ... show no desire or ability to have civil logical conversation," then just don't bother responding to them.  Respond to the majority of Islanders who are willing to have civil, logical conversations, and disregard the few who aren't.  If they want to pick fights, don't help them do so.

[Hambil]

Ro-Astarte, on Aug 25 2004, 07:01 AM, said:

How about calling it what it is?

"Talking Point #25"  or something along the same lines will make the point without bringing in the OTT quality that will also derail debate.

I don't see how 'talking point #25" makes the point as well, or calls it what it is. Perhaps, "RIDICULOUS CLAIM!" could be argued, if anyone thinks that's better than "BUSH IS HITLER!".

[Hambil]

Christopher, on Aug 25 2004, 07:04 AM, said:

So basically your protest to inflammatory, anti-discussion behavior is going to be to sink to the same level and add to the disruption?  How is that a protest?  It's more like an endorsement.

Fighting fire with fire is a quick way to burn down the whole Isle.  A better way to fight the fire is to deprive it of fuel.  If people " keep the issues from being discussed, and ... show no desire or ability to have civil logical conversation," then just don't bother responding to them.  Respond to the majority of Islanders who are willing to have civil, logical conversations, and disregard the few who aren't.  If they want to pick fights, don't help them do so.

I understand where you are coming from Chistopher. I wish it could be that way. But, I believe (solely my belief) that this kind of thinking has lost us the presidency and control of the congress, and nearly control of the senate. I can't be a passive Democrat any longer.

[Ro-Astarte]

Quote

I don't see how 'talking point #25" makes the point as well, or calls it what it is. Perhaps, "RIDICULOUS CLAIM!" could be argued, if anyone thinks that's better than "BUSH IS HITLER!".

By all means, use that then. Or there's always that old classic "Where's the beef?"

By invoking the comparison to Hitler (or Saddam, or Osama or whoever) the argument will become about the wording you use, which is exactly what prevents substantive debate.

Ro

[Shalamar]

Hambil, we always try to foster debate/discussion in this forum, especially this forum since the topics here are often "hot button" issues.

I very sincerely feel that you starting this thread completely derails that, and you saying that you will simply link to this thread is likely to be  highly inflamatory and in it's own way short changes any efforts you might make.

You are just as partisian as any of our other posters in this forum.

Bush is not Hitler and saying that he is is just likely  to start a string of name calling, which since you started the process is going to be in the end -your fault.

Ro's idea has much merit.

[Godeskian]

Where's the beef?

and Hambill, i'm all for people who are active in a democracy, that's a good thing. I'm just not sure what you're hoping to achieve by stating 'bush is hitler' on occasion.

[Nikcara]

you know....the really sad part is I know several people who compare Bush with Hitler.

The worst was when my stepdad was visiting me in Germany and tried comparing the two...to my German boss.

[Hambil]

What's the name of the Harry Potter spell? Riddikulus? How about if I use that?

[Ro-Astarte]

Argumentum Ridiculosa!!!!!!!!!

[Ro-Astarte]

Or, if you want to go for the sublimely ridiculous, how about  

"Bush and Kerry's    Love Nest"



Ro

[Mr.Calgary]

Hambil, on Aug 25 2004, 06:51 AM, said:

My point? Some people are not interested in debate. I don't know what they are interested in. Causing disruption maybe?

I must be losing my mind.  

From my perspective, -you- have become the biggest disruption in OT.

In the last couple of days I've considered giving up on OT because of your negative "antics".

[Hambil]

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 25 2004, 07:21 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 25 2004, 06:51 AM, said:

My point? Some people are not interested in debate. I don't know what they are interested in. Causing disruption maybe?

I must be losing my mind.  

From my perspective, -you- have become the biggest disruption in OT.

In the last couple of days I've considered giving up on OT because of your negative "antics".

Provide examples. I'm open for discussion. I can point to at least three non-partisan threads I've started in the last day alone. And I'll bet that 90% or more of any inflamitory posts you can point to, are directly in response to an inflamitory post from someone else.

[Christopher]

Hambil, on Aug 25 2004, 10:08 AM, said:

I understand where you are coming from Chistopher. I wish it could be that way. But, I believe (solely my belief) that this kind of thinking has lost us the presidency and control of the congress, and nearly control of the senate. I can't be a passive Democrat any longer.

The way to be an active Democrat is to engage in rational, constructive arguments for what you believe in.  If you just fall back into infantile mudslinging, then you're surrendering the debate.  Namecalling is not politics -- it's a lazy substitute for politics.  If the opposition functions entirely through namecalling and inflammatory rhetoric, then they're the ones who are at a disadvantage, because they aren't really saying anything at all.  The way to gain the high ground is to have something worth saying.

Imagine how differently the last presidential election might've gone if a higher proportion of informed, intelligent citizens had chosen to vote.  Democracy works poorly when fewer people vote, especially when fewer informed people vote.  When candidates and pundits resort exclusively to the basest tactics, they disillusion a lot of informed people and keep them from voting, and that hurts everyone, except for those few who base their power on the ignorance and neglect of the masses.

[Christopher]

Hambil said:

And I'll bet that 90% or more of any inflamitory posts you can point to, are directly in response to an inflamitory post from someone else.

Which is never a legitimate excuse.  If something is wrong, it's always wrong.  You can't say it's wrong for someone else to do it to you but okay for you to do it to them.

[Hambil]

Christopher, on Aug 25 2004, 07:33 AM, said:

Hambil said:

And I'll bet that 90% or more of any inflamitory posts you can point to, are directly in response to an inflamitory post from someone else.

Which is never a legitimate excuse.  If something is wrong, it's always wrong.  You can't say it's wrong for someone else to do it to you but okay for you to do it to them.

Turn the other cheek is a great idea, if you are willing to get beat up a lot, and probably die for your cause.

Actually, I don't disagree with you completely. I just (my opinion only) think you are being a little too idiolistic.

By the way, I should point out that I almost never respond with just partisan rhetoric. My responses have been very aggressive, but they have also pointed out flaws and linked to articles and presented the facts. The other side cannot say the same. That's the great thing about a message board - the proof is *always* still in the posts.

Edited by Hambil, 25 August 2004 - 09:43 AM.

[Delvo]

Christopher, on Aug 25 2004, 08:04 AM, said:

So basically your protest to inflammatory, anti-discussion behavior is going to be to sink to the same level and add to the disruption?

Actually, no. It's his response to anything he'd rather duck than deal with: CALL it something it isn't.