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Riddikulus!

OT Partisanship

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#21 Delvo

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:56 AM

Hambil, on Aug 25 2004, 08:39 AM, said:

My responses have been very aggressive, but they have also pointed out flaws and linked to articles and presented the facts. The other side cannot say the same.
Those blinders you were talking about in the Cousins Of Godwin thread are bigger and strapped on tighter for you than for anyone else here.

#22 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:56 AM

Delvo, on Aug 25 2004, 07:50 AM, said:

Christopher, on Aug 25 2004, 08:04 AM, said:

So basically your protest to inflammatory, anti-discussion behavior is going to be to sink to the same level and add to the disruption?
Actually, no. It's his response to anything he'd rather duck than deal with: CALL it something it isn't.
Prove it. The evidence should be in the threads. One example will do. Just one. I'll be waiting.

#23 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:57 AM

Delvo, on Aug 25 2004, 07:54 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 25 2004, 08:39 AM, said:

My responses have been very aggressive, but they have also pointed out flaws and linked to articles and presented the facts. The other side cannot say the same.
Those blinders you were talking about in the Cousins Of Godwin thread are bigger and strapped on tighter for you than for anyone else here.
Again, prove it.

#24 Ogami

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:11 AM

John Kerry: I support a middle class tax cut.

John Kerry: I actually supported the $87 billion, before I voted against it.

John Kerry: Bring it on.

John Kerry: I relate to middle class America.

-Ogami

#25 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:14 AM

Ogami, on Aug 25 2004, 08:09 AM, said:

John Kerry: I support a middle class tax cut.

John Kerry: I actually supported the $87 billion, before I voted against it.

John Kerry: Bring it on.

John Kerry: I relate to middle class America.

-Ogami
RIDDIKULUS!

#26 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:14 AM

Cites, please, Ogami.

I like context and foundation in my debates.

Ro

#27 Ogami

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:15 AM

The thread topic is ridiculous claims, Ro.

Seeing the two wealthiest men in the Senate claim to relate to middle America is about the most ridiculous they've come up with, and you don't need me to quote a single speech for that. Try all of them.

#28 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:15 AM

Ro-Astarte, on Aug 25 2004, 08:12 AM, said:

Cites, please, Ogami.

I like context and foundation in my debates.

Ro
He's pretending that this thread is about all ridiculous claims, and holding them up as examples of ridiculous claims Kerry has made. RIDDIKULUS! :D

#29 Delvo

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:16 AM

Quote

Some people are not interested in debate. I don't know what they are interested in. Causing disruption maybe? But, I've grown tired of how they keep the issues from being discussed, and how they show no desire or ability to have civil logical conversation... By the way, I should point out that I almost never respond with just partisan rhetoric. My responses have been very aggressive, but they have also pointed out flaws and linked to articles and presented the facts...
If you prefer discussion on the actual topics over flaming back and forth, then why have you either ignored or merely attacked completely non-argumentative, topical posts that could have been the basis for a serious, worthwhile liberal response?

http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=400694
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=400627
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=392409
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=383028

Edited by Delvo, 25 August 2004 - 10:18 AM.


#30 Godeskian

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:16 AM

Ogami?

So you feel that rich people cannot relate to middle class people?

is that really what you're saying?

Edited by Cyberhippie, 25 August 2004 - 10:17 AM.

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#31 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:16 AM

By comparison to W and Cheney?

Or are you a Nader supporter suddenly?

Ro

#32 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:31 AM

Delvo, on Aug 25 2004, 08:14 AM, said:

Quote

Some people are not interested in debate. I don't know what they are interested in. Causing disruption maybe? But, I've grown tired of how they keep the issues from being discussed, and how they show no desire or ability to have civil logical conversation... By the way, I should point out that I almost never respond with just partisan rhetoric. My responses have been very aggressive, but they have also pointed out flaws and linked to articles and presented the facts...
If you prefer discussion on the actual topics over flaming back and forth, then why have you either ignored or merely attacked completely non-argumentative, topical posts that could have been the basis for a serious, worthwhile liberal response?

http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=400694
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=400627
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=392409
http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=383028
Post #1: What exactly in that post is a question that you would expect a response for?
Post #2: This is a post you made to Rhea, not me.
Post #3: A number of people (including Zack) responded to this. I also responded (though not directly to you) with a rather large follow up post here.
Post #4: Not only did I respond to this numerous times by stating I wasn't going to dig up and present documentation that had already been presented over and over again. But, I even started an entire thread about my reasoning: The Social Information Filter

#33 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:33 AM

Ogami, on Aug 25 2004, 10:13 AM, said:

The thread topic is ridiculous claims, Ro.

Seeing the two wealthiest men in the Senate claim to relate to middle America is about the most ridiculous they've come up with, and you don't need me to quote a single speech for that. Try all of them.
While Kerry is indeed the richest Senator per this report there's plenty of Republicans in the mix as well, and Edwards is a bit down the list.

I couldn't take time to add it up, but financial disclosure filings for W sure make him look pretty flush with assets.

As does Former Halliburton CEO and current VPOTUS Dick Cheney.

Ro

#34 Drew

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:36 AM

I think the problem is that "Bush Hatred" is a sort of religion, and to attempt to dialogue with Bush-haters (as opposed to dialoging with someone who really has an open mind) is like attempting to convince a True Believer of the wrongness of his faith. Bush-hatred has been bubbling over for four years, beginning with catchphrases like "selected, not elected" and continuing onward to "Bush lied, people died." (Never mind that both these things are demonstrably false.) It will require quite a bit of time for reprogramming.

Hambil (sorry to use you as an example, but) has already made it clear that he hates Bush. "Hate" is the word he has used ever since he showed up. He has made no apologies for that. So I have already accepted that it will be nearly impossible for anyone to change his mind. I don't care to respond to people who are merely Bush-haters. The only reason I still respond to Hambil's posts is because I suspect that he hasn't entirely lost his sense of humor.  :cool:
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#35 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:41 AM

Drew, on Aug 25 2004, 08:34 AM, said:

Hambil (sorry to use you as an example, but) has already made it clear that he hates Bush. "Hate" is the word he has used ever since he showed up. He has made no apologies for that. So I have already accepted that it will be nearly impossible for anyone to change his mind. I don't care to respond to people who are merely Bush-haters. The only reason I still respond to Hambil's posts is because I suspect that he hasn't entirely lost his sense of humor.  :cool:
Yes. I hate Bush. Yes, I've made that clear from the start. And no, I haven't entirely lost my sense of  humor ;)

But, to assume I won't engage in rational debate, when I have shown a willingness to do so, and am, in fact, doing so right now, is not reasonable.

I have, can, and will change my mind. Perhaps not about something as large as voting for Bush (not without a lot of work to disprove or show my beliefs to be false anyway - which we haven't even gotten to because we're too busy debating issues that as far as I can tell barely matter like Kerry's Vietnam record). But certainly I can be convinced about policies, or specific issues. Heck, I don't even know the right answer to many things - like the economy - so I'm certainly open to discussing others views.

And, to put the shoe on the other foot: Would anything I could say on Ex Isle between now and November change your vote?

Edited by Hambil, 25 August 2004 - 10:42 AM.


#36 Ogami

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:46 AM

Cyberhippie asked:

Ogami? So you feel that rich people cannot relate to middle class people? is that really what you're saying?

No, I'm saying that in typical filthy rich liberal fashion, Kerry and Edwards speak in condescending tones towards those who are poorer than they are. Dining on Beluga and Dom Perignon every week, they look down their noses at the ignorant peons and describe all the things they're going to do for them and give them.

So I'm saying John Kerry is Marie Antoinette.  :lol:  ;)

-Ogami

#37 Ogami

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:48 AM

Ro wrote:

I couldn't take time to add it up, but financial disclosure filings for W sure make him look pretty flush with assets. As does Former Halliburton CEO and current VPOTUS Dick Cheney.

Kerry and Edwards have a far wealthier combined wealth than Bush and Cheney.

Oops, did I include Tereza's total in that as well? Or did she tell her widow-chaser: "Hands off my money!"

Enquiring minds want to know.

-Ogami

#38 Godeskian

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:48 AM

ah, thanks for the clarification

and Ogami, you know Mary Antoinette never actually said 'let them eat cake' right? ;)

#39 Hambil

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:48 AM

Ogami, on Aug 25 2004, 08:44 AM, said:

Cyberhippie asked:

Ogami? So you feel that rich people cannot relate to middle class people? is that really what you're saying?

No, I'm saying that in typical filthy rich liberal fashion, Kerry and Edwards speak in condescending tones towards those who are poorer than they are. Dining on Beluga and Dom Perignon every week, they look down their noses at the ignorant peons and describe all the things they're going to do for them and give them.

So I'm saying John Kerry is Marie Antoinette.  :lol:  ;)

-Ogami
RIDDIKULUS!

#40 Ogami

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:49 AM

It's apocryphal, right.

My source is a new book I just read by British historian Alistair Horne entitled "Seven Ages of Paris".

-Ogami



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