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Anti Bush rally banned in New York

Election 2004 Republican Convention New York Anti-Bush Protestors

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#1 Godeskian

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:57 AM

from the bbc/Americas section of the www.newsbbc.co.uk
http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/3600200.stm

Quote

Political activists opposed to US President George W Bush have been told they will not be allowed to stage a huge rally in New York this weekend.
The planned anti-war protest in Central Park was to coincide with the eve of the Republican Convention and would have begun a week of protest rallies.

Quote

A judge at New York's state Supreme Court has ruled that the rally, which was expected to attract a quarter of a million demonstrators, cannot be held in Central Park because of the damage which may be caused to the grass.
:rolleyes:

Quote

Leslie Cagan, co-ordinator for the United for Peace and Justice group, said the ban on the demonstration was politically motivated by the Republican Mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg.

"A Republican mayor hosting a Republican convention has done everything designed to undermine the demonstration against policies of a Republican administration," she said.

this smells fishy, and the reason given is lame.

Edited by Cyberhippie, 26 August 2004 - 10:58 AM.

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#2 Drew

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:07 AM

Okay, they're not told they can't have a demonstration. They're told they can't use the Great Lawn, which was recently repaired to the tune of millions of dollars, I understand.

It appears that the demonstrations planned for the RNC convention will rival those in Chicago, 1968. And I hope every second of those demonstrations is televised.  :angel:
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#3 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:08 AM

And they say they want peaceful demonstrations? This is not the way to get them.

#4 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:15 AM

Drew, on Aug 26 2004, 09:05 AM, said:

It appears that the demonstrations planned for the RNC convention will rival those in Chicago, 1968.
Except that was the DNC, and it was the year the man who would have won (Robert Kennedy) was assasinated, and the Vietnam war was going on. I think, as much as Dems may hate Bush, we're talking apples and oranges here.

That election, BTW, was also very close. 43.4% voted Nixon, 42.7% voted Humphrey - leaving little doubt that had Robert Kennedy not been assasinated he would have been president.

Edited by Hambil, 26 August 2004 - 11:16 AM.


#5 Drew

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:28 AM

Hambil, on Aug 26 2004, 11:06 AM, said:

And they say they want peaceful demonstrations? This is not the way to get them.
Oh, as if!  :cool:
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#6 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:34 AM

Drew, on Aug 26 2004, 09:26 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 26 2004, 11:06 AM, said:

And they say they want peaceful demonstrations? This is not the way to get them.
Oh, as if!  :cool:
By they, just to be clear, I mean NYC. I (unlike the protesters) suspect the RNC has little to do with this. It is a dumb choice is all.

They hold free concerts there with millions of people attending. How is this different?

#7 emsparks

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:37 PM

Before I start understand that I am going to vote for Kerry.

FRELLING MALE BOVINE EXCREATMENT!!!

I watch CNN early in the morning, mainly because I have trouble sleeping, and also because you’d be surprised the tip bits of the news they report before the politically activist editors get to it.

Here’s the whole story in essence:

The protest organizers asked the city for a permit to use the grate lawn of central park for a protest rally. The city said OK; if and only if you do like every one else has done, you post a bond to pay for cleaning up the lawn and making such repairs as necessary, the same rules that they have applied to every one for sometime now.

The organizers not only said no they said hell no, and went to court. When that judge ruled in the city’s favor, the organizers tried taking it to a higher court, which also sided with the city.

Now the organizers are saying that they just might hold their rally in the park any way.

It is obvious to me that these organizers are hoping for pictures of demonstrators being arrested during the Republican convention. The media see it coming they want the story and pictures so bad that they won’t report the truth.

This time some really stupid democratic activist is trying to fit the republicans with a black western Stetson.

Man to get the republicans out of office all the democrats would have to do is tell the American public the truth. Except the democrats can’t tell the truth to the American people because they are as caught up in the corruption of the old boy, and campaign finance networks as the republicans are.

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#8 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:41 PM

emsparks, on Aug 26 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

The protest organizers asked the city for a permit to use the grate lawn of central park for a protest rally. The city said OK; if and only if you do like every one else has done, you post a bond to pay for cleaning up the lawn and making such repairs as necessary, the same rules that they have applied to every one for sometime now.

The organizers not only said no they said hell no, and went to court. When that judge ruled in the city’s favor, the organizers tried taking it to a higher court, which also sided with the city.

Now the organizers are saying that they just might hold their rally in the park any way.
Argh. I agree with you. These idiots are doing more harm than good.

ARGHHHH!!!

#9 Godeskian

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:42 PM

That's a very different story than hte BBC is reporting. I find the differences....striking.

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#10 emsparks

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 12:47 PM

Cyberhippie, on Aug 26 2004, 01:40 PM, said:

That's a very different story than hte BBC is reporting. I find the differences....striking.
Actually the story aired on CNN after 7 am tracks pretty much with the BBC, which I find worse...

Worse it’s not a first…

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Edited by emsparks, 26 August 2004 - 12:50 PM.

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#11 Shalamar

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 01:33 PM

Gee, being given equal treatment under the rules in place...must needs a lawsuit.  :rolleyes:
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#12 Rhys

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 01:43 PM

Hmm.... how much is the bond?  If I was a PR person for the Republicans, I'd suggest that the party very publicly offer to pay the bond for them...  Just think of the effect that would have...

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#13 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 01:44 PM

Rhys, on Aug 26 2004, 11:41 AM, said:

Hmm.... how much is the bond?  If I was a PR person for the Republicans, I'd suggest that the party very publicly offer to pay the bond for them...  Just think of the effect that would have...

Rhys
I thought of that.. or Kerry paying the bond. But, my guess it's illegal for a candidate or party to do that.

Edited by Hambil, 26 August 2004 - 01:45 PM.


#14 LaughingVulcan

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 02:07 PM

From the NYPD's website,http://www.nyc.gov/h...q.html#protests

NYPD, on Now,Cyberspace, said:

WILL THERE BE PROTESTS?
Large numbers of demonstrators are expected to stage protests in the vicinity of the venue. The main demonstration area is on Eighth Avenue extending south from 31st Street for as far as necessary depending upon the size of the crowd. Significant crowds could impede the flow of vehicular and pedestrian traffic throughout the area. The largest demonstration is expected on Sunday August 29th, resulting in the closure of 7th Avenue between 14th and 34th Street, 34th Street between 7th and 12th Avenue, and the West Side Highway from 34th Street to Chambers Street.

Now I don't know NYC.  But what I read there is that demonstrations are and will be allowed.  It's the venue that's in question.  (I don't know if the areas in square footage are comparable, either.)  Further, from apparently the organizer's website, http://www.unitedfor...cle.php?id=1810

United for Peace and Justice, on Now,Cyberspace, said:

WE ARE MARCHING! We are very disappointed in the New York State Supreme Court ruling, denying our request to rally in Central Park. But make no mistake: Our August 29 protest march is still happening! We have an agreement with the City for a legal, peaceful march past Madison Square Garden, the site of the Republican Convention, and we are negotiating with the New York Police Department for a safe, peaceful, and orderly closure of the day's events.

It reads to me like this UPJ group was lawfully told that they couldn't use a particular venue on a particular day.  Political motivation?  Maybe yes, maybe no, but this group's cause is certainly advanced by screaming that it was.  I'm not reading it as denial of lawful assembly, at least when I blow the spin away.

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#15 Rhea

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 02:31 PM

Hambil, on Aug 26 2004, 08:13 AM, said:

Drew, on Aug 26 2004, 09:05 AM, said:

It appears that the demonstrations planned for the RNC convention will rival those in Chicago, 1968.
Except that was the DNC, and it was the year the man who would have won (Robert Kennedy) was assasinated, and the Vietnam war was going on. I think, as much as Dems may hate Bush, we're talking apples and oranges here.
I'll say. You'd think the Chicage DNC happend in a void. Martin Luther King, JFK and Robert Kennedy had all been assassinated. The rage and despair caused by their deaths and the war in Viet Nam simply can't be underestimated.

To compare any anti-Bush anti-war protests now to the DNC back then is like comparing the Hundred Years' war to a backyard BBQ.
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#16 emsparks

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 02:32 PM

Many times in the past NYC companies have guaranteed the bond especially for free concerts. If the DNC wanted the rally to use the Great lawn they could have quietly gotten a number of very large corporate supporters to cover the cost in cleaning and repairing the lawn, it’s been done before.

If you know anything about demonstrating in NYC, you know about the park and the bond rules. My point being that either a real dummy is running the demonstration or their looking for a very visual confrontation. If their are looking for a confrontation, the New York City Police Department will be very happy to oblige.

OR on the other hand it could just be the media playing some more of their omission games for headlines…

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Edited by emsparks, 26 August 2004 - 02:35 PM.

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#17 Drew

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 03:16 PM

Rhea, on Aug 26 2004, 02:29 PM, said:

To compare any anti-Bush anti-war protests now to the DNC back then is like comparing the Hundred Years' war to a backyard BBQ.
I'm not comparing current anti-Bush protests. I'm making a prediction about protests during the upcoming convention. Why don't we wait until they happen. Then we can make comparisons.  :cool:  Unless you believe the convention has already taken place, as some in the media do.  ;)
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#18 Hambil

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 04:20 PM

Rhea, on Aug 26 2004, 12:29 PM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 26 2004, 08:13 AM, said:

Drew, on Aug 26 2004, 09:05 AM, said:

It appears that the demonstrations planned for the RNC convention will rival those in Chicago, 1968.
Except that was the DNC, and it was the year the man who would have won (Robert Kennedy) was assasinated, and the Vietnam war was going on. I think, as much as Dems may hate Bush, we're talking apples and oranges here.
I'll say. You'd think the Chicage DNC happend in a void. Martin Luther King, JFK and Robert Kennedy had all been assassinated. The rage and despair caused by their deaths and the war in Viet Nam simply can't be underestimated.

To compare any anti-Bush anti-war protests now to the DNC back then is like comparing the Hundred Years' war to a backyard BBQ.
Not to mention the fact that the last thing the Republicans want is any references to 1968 when Nixon was elected. I suspect they don't want to give the public a chance to make that decision over again. :p~

#19 Jazzer

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:10 PM

I have no problem with non-violent protest, if it really is non-violent and respectful of by-standers and public & private property in the area.  But I've heard interviews with a few of the people planning some of these protests.  When they were asked if they plan to obey the law and respect the police, they never would give a straight answer.  They seemed to imply a very thinly veiled threat of possible rioting.  The muggers may want to beware if the protestors try to take over Central Park.  

I forgot where I heard it, but I had heard, too, about bond money being required.  It only makes sense in case of damage.  I wonder if such bond money also helps pay the salaries of the extra police officers required to be on duty.  

I feel sorry for the police and what they'll have to go through in trying to protect the public and property in the demonstration areas.  If demonstrators can't be respectful of by-standers and public & private property and they do damage, especially serious damage, I think they ought to be arrested to keep other people around from being hurt.  I think the police better be ready with riot-gear just in case.  

I forgot the source, but I also heard that some protestors plan to put gun-powder on themselves to confuse the bomb-sniffing dogs and have been trained in tactics how to throw something then try to quickly blend back into a crowd.  

One of my concerns with those kind of tactics is the possibility of foreign terrorists taking advantage of the chaos and managing to kill a lot of people and such terrorists aren't likely to be picky about whether who they kill is Democrat, Republican, or whatever.  

In light of the possibility of terrorism, it seems insane to me for people to deliberately try to make the police's job to protect the public that much harder.  I don't understand the mentality of people who act as if they think that terrorist attacks could never happen again here in America.  The terrorists haven't changed in their views or overall agendas.
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#20 G1223

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:30 PM

I have to say that if the protestors violate the law they deservethe maximum penalty. if that is jail time so be itif it's prison time gee maybe when they get out maybe they can rethink the price of being stupid.

The city offered them the exact same rates they offer for other groups. Where did they get this "We're Special" idea. Now they want to make the job difficult for the police.
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