Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Homosexuality-Why I Feel It's Biological

LGBT Homosexuality Biological

  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#21 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:32 AM

^ if its not caused by genetics, but caused *that* early in life, I wouldn't consider it much of a choice :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#22 Hambil

Hambil
  • Islander
  • 5,492 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:39 AM

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 09:16 AM, said:

So both of us hate each other's arguements because they go in circle's each using their own beliefs, really, about the moralty of homosexual acts, to validate their position on each point.
One belief, however, is based on analysis of facts, the other on what the bible says. I'm terrified of death, but, fighting religious control over rational control (church and state) is one of the few causes I would die for.

Edited by Hambil, 27 August 2004 - 11:40 AM.


#23 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:49 AM

I think there are biological factors but also psychological aspect is there as well.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#24 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:51 AM

Despite the opinions of some, homosexuality is not regarded as an illness or anything in need of being "fixed" by most of the medical and psychiatric community.  The jury's still out, to be sure--medical doctors and psychologists/psychiatrists who believe differently do exist . . . but they're in the minority.

I'd even go so far as to say that there VERY VERY few people who actually believe it's a concious choice.  The real debate is whether it's nature or nurture and to what degree.  As with most things regarding human behavior, it's inevitably a complex combination of both--one can be genetically pre-disposed for homosexuality, but that may not occur.

As for the prison analogy--those men aren't necesarrily gay.  As has been stated, it's a completely different environment, and other men are being used as substitutes for women and an animalistic system of establishing dominance.  When or if those men get out, they'll return to heterosexual behavior.

-Nick

#25 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 12:10 PM

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 09:16 AM, said:

So both of us hate each other's arguements because they go in circle's each using their own beliefs, really, about the moralty of homosexual acts, to validate their position on each point.
One belief, however, is based on analysis of facts, the other on what the bible says. I'm terrified of death, but, fighting religious control over rational control (church and state) is one of the few causes I would die for.
We can only (supposively) prove it is naturally and the humans have little control over this yearning, but we cannot prove it is moral for them to have sexual relations w/ people of the same sex.

Some people do horribly immoral things, criminals for example, people could argue they are predisposed to it (by nature or nuture it hardly matters), does that mean, because it has occured in human nature that we should let it be?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#26 HubcapDave

HubcapDave

    Bald is Beautiful!

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 12:25 PM

Wow, it's time for another spin on everyone's favorite ride in the park!


I'll just watch from the sidelines.

#27 Hambil

Hambil
  • Islander
  • 5,492 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 12:26 PM

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 10:08 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 09:16 AM, said:

So both of us hate each other's arguements because they go in circle's each using their own beliefs, really, about the moralty of homosexual acts, to validate their position on each point.
One belief, however, is based on analysis of facts, the other on what the bible says. I'm terrified of death, but, fighting religious control over rational control (church and state) is one of the few causes I would die for.
We can only (supposively) prove it is naturally and the humans have little control over this yearning, but we cannot prove it is moral for them to have sexual relations w/ people of the same sex.

Some people do horribly immoral things, criminals for example, people could argue they are predisposed to it (by nature or nuture it hardly matters), does that mean, because it has occured in human nature that we should let it be?
Of course not. But, I want any morality I have to answer to based of a rational and philosophical/scientific evaluation of reality.

#28 Beldame

Beldame
  • Islander
  • 644 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 01:44 PM

People are 'like that' because of the way they were brought up? People are 'like' that because of their genes, they can't help it?

I don't like the argument either way. People are more complex than that. I don't suppose the answer, if we ever find one, will be that simple. The real question is- does it matter why? (apart from scientific curiosity about human behavior).  The only reason I can see for caring is if you think there ought to be a 'cure' or want to assign blame. Let's get on with building a society where people can choose their partners (of whatever sex, race or religion) without having to justify it to anyone.
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.

(Douglas Adams)

#29 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:07 PM

Beldame, on Aug 27 2004, 01:42 PM, said:

People are 'like that' because of the way they were brought up? People are 'like' that because of their genes, they can't help it?

I don't like the argument either way. People are more complex than that. I don't suppose the answer, if we ever find one, will be that simple. The real question is- does it matter why? (apart from scientific curiosity about human behavior).  The only reason I can see for caring is if you think there ought to be a 'cure' or want to assign blame. Let's get on with building a society where people can choose their partners (of whatever sex, race or religion) without having to justify it to anyone.
Speaking only for myself...

Of course people are more complex than that. But homosexuality has been around for a LONG time-and same sex relationships in the animal kingdom most likely go back millions of years. I am a curious person by nature, and I'm always asking myself questions. And yes-part of this for me is scientific curiosity about human behavior.

Any answer is bound to be complex. My personal opinion: the biological component is a main-if not the main reason for homosexuality. Why does this matter to me? Again-simple curiosity. Many people look down upon gays and lesbians. They are treated in the most horrific fashion, simply because of their sexual orientation. I don't like seeing people being treated that way. Gays and lesbians certainly don't want this abuse-so why do so many people insist it's all about choice of lifestyle? The answers matter to me, because I want to understand why. I'm trying to learn.

I'm making my feelings known to  question-and challenge-those who feel that homosexuality is all about choice. If we want to educate people so they can better understand their fellow human beings, asking questions and debating certainly matters quite a bit.

Edited by Digital Man, 27 August 2004 - 03:10 PM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#30 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:15 PM

Mr.Calgary, on Aug 27 2004, 10:34 AM, said:

Delvo, on Aug 27 2004, 04:10 AM, said:

3. Some people do choose behaviors that get them scorn from other people. Read the episode descriptions for VH1's "Totally Obsessed" and you'll see people who do things like dress up & act like Peter Pan all day of every day, surgically alter themselves to the point of having an induced speech impedement in order to appear more like a tiger, or try to give everything in their lives such a Miami Vice theme that the actor who played DJ's sidekick seemed to be more of a guest of honor at the wedding than the (other) best man or the bride.
Exactly, it's so bloody obvious.

Martyr complex etc. etc.  

Can I presume the thread starter wasn't around for the punk era?

(for many , it may be hardwired, but to ignore all other factors,  :eek4: )
The thread starter was around BEFORE the punk era started, thanks. :cool:  And he lives near New York City. The punk movement was big there, and is still around in some fashion.  

And yes, some people do things to get negative attention. But that isn't my point. My point is about the OTHER homosexual folks who AREN'T looking for ANY attention-who just want to lead quiet, peaceful lives.
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#31 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:39 PM

Digital Man, on Aug 26 2004, 09:21 PM, said:

I touched briefly upon this in Rhea's "God" thread, but I wanted to turn this into its own thread. Keep in mind-these are just my thoughts on the matter, after having pondered it for quite a while.

I'm of the belief that homosexuality is biological in origin.

Why?

Why would anyone willingly subject  himself/herself to a lifestyle that would result in becoming a pariah for the rest of their lives? Humans have a need to belong. Gays and lesbians certainly don't take pleasure in all the rampant forms of homophobia out there. Quite a few folks have been killed because of their sexual orientation as well.

Why would someone choose such a lifestyle, knowing the ramifications that await them?

Any thoughts appreciated.

:cool:
I've previously posted a number of links to various scientific studies which would tend to bear out the fact that homosexuality is biological. If you're interested I can go looking again. For instance, there is evidence that the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals differ in some significant respects. There is also evidence that the hormone balances are different in homosexual men than they are in heterosexual.

As Nick says, both the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association believe homosexuality is biological and not abnormal for the person who's born that way. In fact, the APA has denounced "conversion" therapy - trying to cure a homosexual of their orientation through therapy - as being unethical and unproductive.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#32 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:41 PM

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 06:43 AM, said:

emsparks, on Aug 27 2004, 07:32 AM, said:

The much stronger argument is that homosexuality is found in the same proportions in, domestic animals and, livestock, as it appears in human beings. So tell me when dose your average horse decide itís going to be gay.
I agree that is a good argument, but many in the gay community and those supporting it are cautious of a comparison to animals :) Especially since the major opponents donít believe man is an animal.
Not only that, but studies have shown that approximately 10% of any human population will be gay REGARDLESS OF THAT SOCIETY'S DOMINANT RELIGION, MORES OR LAWS. That would certainly argue for a biological origin even without the ongoing studies that are being done into the differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#33 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:52 PM

Rhea, on Aug 27 2004, 03:37 PM, said:

I've previously posted a number of links to various scientific studies which would tend to bear out the fact that homosexuality is biological. If you're interested I can go looking again. For instance, there is evidence that the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals differ in some significant respects. There is also evidence that the hormone balances are different in homosexual men than they are in heterosexual.

As Nick says, both the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association believe homosexuality is biological and not abnormal for the person who's born that way. In fact, the APA has denounced "conversion" therapy - trying to cure a homosexual of their orientation through therapy - as being unethical and unproductive.
Cool. I'd like to see the links.

Reading is fundamental.  :cool:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#34 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:53 PM

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 01:24 PM, said:

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 10:08 AM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 12:37 PM, said:

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 09:16 AM, said:

So both of us hate each other's arguements because they go in circle's each using their own beliefs, really, about the moralty of homosexual acts, to validate their position on each point.
One belief, however, is based on analysis of facts, the other on what the bible says. I'm terrified of death, but, fighting religious control over rational control (church and state) is one of the few causes I would die for.
We can only (supposively) prove it is naturally and the humans have little control over this yearning, but we cannot prove it is moral for them to have sexual relations w/ people of the same sex.

Some people do horribly immoral things, criminals for example, people could argue they are predisposed to it (by nature or nuture it hardly matters), does that mean, because it has occured in human nature that we should let it be?
Of course not. But, I want any morality I have to answer to based of a rational and philosophical/scientific evaluation of reality.
A lot of people don't think that way. They'd prefer morality to be dictated from something immutable. What is the point of morality that is suspect to human whim? How do you know what is truely moral if its subject to change?

Besides, science isn't, or cannot, decide morality. Science, simply put, is fact, or at least the search for fact. Science can perhaps one day tell us whether a behavour is biological or pshycologial or socialogical/etc in nature, but it can't tell us if that behavour is moral or not. Heck, some scientist would say morality is a complete human concept. All animal behavour is natural. And humans are another animal. Only humans can comment on the morality of actions (thank god we aren't telepathic ;) ).

Killing another human is wrong, most people agree. Most also agree doing it in self defense (or in defense of another) is ok. Then there are culture's that do go beyound this, or have interesting definitions of defense. Not to mention the history of war and the reasons behind some of them  :eh: Though I figure most of the people fighting it were fighting it for much different reason than the people who wanted the war to happen, or there was such a history between the fighting parties that no one knew the initial reason anymore, or just kept on going for "retalation".

Morality is and always will be a Human concept (until if and when we meet other intelligent life, assuming they hold the same concepts ;) ), that is going to change depending on the time, place and group of people. Some people can or will not, or don't want to comtemplate that. Morality should be immutable. They are right, and will always be, just because the times change, doesn't mean morality doesn.

And some basic things seem to be constant (but each era and place will have its own flavour of it, and some can actually twist it out of shape). I wish Morality was immutable for me, it'd make things much easier ;)  

One easy way to make it immutable is to say someone more knowlegdable, and immutable itself, is the one that is right. And the only person that can have more authority is someone that no one has meet/knows (in this life ;) ) and therefor cannot be of this Earth, or people would be asking where to find this person ;) Obviously, this person, for many people is God. And his/her word is in their Holy Book, only subject to interpretation. And usually only religious leaders interpreations are allowed. Everyone who doesn't follow the word of their God is wrong, or at the least, mis-guided.

Rationality wouldn't always work either. Some of the sickest people feel their thoughts are rational (whether they are or not, doesn't matter, if they think they are rational and thinks that gives them a moral edge). A child who is starving steals some food from a Supermarket.... those actions are completely rational to the child, *even* if they know what they are doing is wrong.

And Philosophy can be such a waffling subject, whether that is good or not, some people aren't going to like that ;)

There really aren't a standard that can come from a Human, which is probably why we have religion. But then I stick to the very basics.
Shouldn't Kill (unless in defense of one's self or another, or its a 'thing' you are about to eat)
R-E-S-P-E-C-T ;) not just people but yourself, and your surroundings and other fellow creatures

As long as someone isn't physically hurting something else, or themself (unless the defense clause again); or intentionally hurting something else in other ways, then why can't they do it? But thats just me.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#35 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 03:54 PM

Digital Man, on Aug 27 2004, 12:50 PM, said:

Rhea, on Aug 27 2004, 03:37 PM, said:

I've previously posted a number of links to various scientific studies which would tend to bear out the fact that homosexuality is biological. If you're interested I can go looking again. For instance, there is evidence that the brains of homosexuals and heterosexuals differ in some significant respects. There is also evidence that the hormone balances are different in homosexual men than they are in heterosexual.

As Nick says, both the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association believe homosexuality is biological and not abnormal for the person who's born that way. In fact, the APA has denounced "conversion" therapy - trying to cure a homosexual of their orientation through therapy - as being unethical and unproductive.
Cool. I'd like to see the links.

Reading is fundamental.  :cool:

Some links and references provided below. If you don't want to wade through the rest of the links, try the last one, which is a fair summary of recent research.

Note that I don't use anything but scholarly or educational links except in one instance where I couldn't find the original referenced (and there's a reason - sometimes stuff gets twisted or inaccurately summarized - best to read the original material.

Simon LeVay (1991). A Difference in Hypothalmic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men. Science, vol. 253, pp. 1034-1037.

http://www-2.cs.cmu....ture/levay.html

Simon LeVay & Dean H. Hamer (May 1994). Evidence for a Biological Influence in Male Homosexuality. Scientific American, vol. 270, pp. 44-49.  (no link for this one but you can always find a back issue)

This is a study of identical twins:

http://homepages.inf...dies/index.html

Quote

These results give reason to believe that there is some constitutional component to male homosexuality. However, the twin data are consistent not only with a purely genetic explanation, but also with one involving possible differences in the degree of shared prenatal environment between monozygotic and dizygotic twins (as explained earlier, monozygotic twins experience higher similarity in foetal hormone production, both in timing and in amount, than do dizygotic twins). Some recent theories of the genesis of homosexuality, to be mentioned in the next section, place critical importance on hormone levels in the prenatal environment of an individual. If such theories are true, then the difference in concordance rates between monozygotic and dizygotic twins could be explained largely in these terms (see next section). It should be noted that such an explanation still relies on genetically controlled prenatal hormone production to account for observed differences in concordance between monozygotic and dizygotic twins.

This one talks about the endocrine system and the role it may play in homosexuality:

http://www.findartic..._56/ai_66419866

This is a summary of the brain structure study (I couldn't find the original study results, which I've read, online):

http://www.dataloung...tml?record=8697

This is an interesting paper written by a Bryn Mawr student and posted there on the web site, and is interesting because I think it accurately summarizes both what we know and what we don't know:

http://serendip.bryn.../web1/Rana.html

Quote

Currently, biological research into sexual preference is muddled and inconclusive. Furthermore, three distinct biological fields are involved in the most recent work on sexual orientation: neuroanatomy, psychoendocrinology, and genetics (2) . Among these three fields, more and more evidence for a biological determinant of homosexuality is surfacing. It is predicted that a biological substrate for sexual orientation will be found within the next ten years (1) . Genetic studies such as one done by Bailey and Pillard have shown a 52% concordance rate of homosexuality in monozygotic twins (4). This suggests that homosexuality is highly attributable to genetics. These findings as well as those of LeVay's (although debatable) are setting the groundwork for a biological cause of homosexuality. They are the key to unlocking the mystery of sexuality and are proving more than ever that brain does equal behavior.

She also provides links to scholarly studies on the issue, including some of the ones I'd already referenced above.

Edited by Rhea, 27 August 2004 - 04:09 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#36 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 05:12 PM

Rhea, on Aug 27 2004, 04:39 PM, said:

Hambil, on Aug 27 2004, 06:43 AM, said:

emsparks, on Aug 27 2004, 07:32 AM, said:

The much stronger argument is that homosexuality is found in the same proportions in, domestic animals and, livestock, as it appears in human beings. So tell me when dose your average horse decide itís going to be gay.
I agree that is a good argument, but many in the gay community and those supporting it are cautious of a comparison to animals :) Especially since the major opponents donít believe man is an animal.
Not only that, but studies have shown that approximately 10% of any human population will be gay REGARDLESS OF THAT SOCIETY'S DOMINANT RELIGION, MORES OR LAWS. That would certainly argue for a biological origin even without the ongoing studies that are being done into the differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
I believe thats the best piece of evidence for saying it's something that is innate in people. Of course, it doesn't address its morality, but as I say, who are they harming? They obviously haven't been harmfull enough to cause society's descrution before ;) :D Though some people go on to argue they are harming themselves, and usually can't get any scientific evidence to back them up. They usually try some medical evidence, which usually isn't supportive in my opinion.

Edited by sierraleone, 27 August 2004 - 05:12 PM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#37 StarDust

StarDust
  • Islander
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 05:32 PM

Who's morality???  Again, that's a personal stance or opinion.  

There is no big morality or some fact dictated by biology or physics or anything that states that homosexuality causes harm in any way.  

It is an opinion, based on taught beliefs and some religious positions of some religious sects.

#38 StarDust

StarDust
  • Islander
  • 1,155 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 05:37 PM

sierraleone, on Aug 27 2004, 12:30 PM, said:

^ if its not caused by genetics, but caused *that* early in life, I wouldn't consider it much of a choice :D
Exactly.

Not all biological causes are genetic.  Genetics aren't the end all and be all of anything. But biology is just a basic part of who we are.


Nurture vs nature is just that, what is biological, including forces other than genetics, versus what is determined by our experiences, which includes everything from psychological damage to bad habits like comfort food.

#39 WildChildCait

WildChildCait

    And from the ashes of fire, she is reborn

  • Islander
  • 3,416 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:01 PM

well, according to new scientist or pubmed - i've been  browsing both an awfull lot the last week - , 10% of rams are gay.
it's been proven to relate to an area of the hypothalemus which in gay rams is the size of that of ewes, whereas the straight rams have this area double the size.

I believe similar research had been done on gay men who had died and agreed to donate their brain, the scientist was simon le-something or other, but i forget the last name..the only problem was, they died of aids and it wasn't certain if it was aids related or due to the homosexuality issue.

Cheers
Chaddee
who firmly believes it is biological
RIP Ruby Medallion: 31-10-1999/21-05-2007
one gender-reassigned, world travelling, world class snake.

FKA Chaddee, amongst other things.
http://scentedalchemy.webs.com Custom handmade bath and body products

#40 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:13 PM

StarDust, on Aug 27 2004, 06:30 PM, said:

Who's morality???  Again, that's a personal stance or opinion.  

There is no big morality or some fact dictated by biology or physics or anything that states that homosexuality causes harm in any way.  

It is an opinion, based on taught beliefs and some religious positions of some religious sects.
Of course, I understand that, I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate I guess, and representing what I think the other point of view is, probably not in the best of light though, I don't know how to do that likely. I have never come across an arguement that homosexual acts are immoral, in and of themselves, that didn't come from religious beliefs. Or fear couched in religious beliefs.

As for medical evidence, I don't mean AIDs, but some argue that anal sex can harm some internal tissues, causing incontinence among other more serious things, haven't found any studies myself, I've just heard that used in arguments. Though motherhood can cause incontinence as well, IIRC (not that they ever mention that).
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: LGBT, Homosexuality, Biological

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users