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Homosexuality-Why I Feel It's Biological

LGBT Homosexuality Biological

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#41 Mr. Synystyr

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:15 PM

I'd be interested in seeing more about bisexuality in both genders, and female homosexuality.  I've noticed that male homosexuality seems to be the focus of most of the research.  Hambil's bit on high and low attraction is among the few things I've seen to address more.

I do believe that, with our current population, if societal pressures were not what they are, we would see higher percentages of both homosexuality and bisexuality, based on my personal observations.  Even accounting for the areas I've lived in, the percentages of people I know that happen to be gay or bi are much higher than I would expect based on that 10% that I keep hearing.

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#42 Josh

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:18 PM

^

That's mainly because male homosexuality seems to have the most stigmas attached to it. Really quite unfair.
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#43 Mr. Synystyr

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:33 PM

^  

Agreed.

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#44 sierraleone

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:38 PM

^ yes, it is quite unfair, the only explanation I can think of, is, that people (more likely, more often men) feel more threatened by gay men than gay women.

Reasons people might feel that way? I can't only speculate. A few men are more worried about gay men coming on to them? People are more threatened by the idea of feminized men, than masculinized women? Masculinized women aren't considered a threat, because they are still essentially women, in their opinion? And feminity is always more of a threat than masculinity... ;) :D Because women are the fairer sex, and so are hotter to see make-out together than two members of the, erm, less-fairer sex? (is there a term, I forget :D )

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#45 Josh

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:43 PM

I think that insecurities play a part in straight men feeling threatened by gay men. I'm not entirely sure WHY yet though...
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#46 sierraleone

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 06:56 PM

^ I've actually meet a woman who said she didn't have any problem w/ gay men, but didn't like (or something to that effect) gay women  :blink: I suppose it isn't any more strange than the reverse, but I haven't heard it before. Perhaps some people feel safe w/ gay people of opposite gender, just like they do w/ straight people of the same gender, and to feel one of your straight buddies isn't someone you should be feeling safe with makes some people nervous.... *scratches head*. I don't know if that woman was a minority though, or a majority that just never speaks out.
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#47 Chakotay

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 08:19 AM

Staying out of the right or wrong bit....

IF EVERYTHING about us is genetic, and can be tracked down to specific genes, you know what's going to happen don't you? Parents that can afford the tests are going to have the embryo checked for not just disease but potential behaviors too, and if there is something they don't like in there the only available treatment is - abortion.

And likewise, the criminal justice system would have to be scrapped, because the ultimate defence would be available. I killed because I'm genetically programed to kill. Not my fault, can't blame me.

Personally, I'm a great believer in individuals choosing how they behave and respond to situations.  I don't think we are just biological machines following a preset program. I think we're greater than the sum of our DNA. And better.
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#48 sierraleone

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 10:22 AM

^ Well, I suspect it isn't just genetics, but a combination of genetics, the conditions in the womb, and, in some cases, their environment. But thats besides the point.

As for the first paragraph:
If parents can check on potential behaviors, they are going to check on it, nothing we can do about that if it is genetic. We do you suppose we do? Suddenly make some things not genetic? We can't change facts, (if it is genetic is a fact), nor can we change how some people are going to respond to that. Some might choose abortion, like any other thing its up to the people who have access to it to use it how they will. Is this trying to scare off pro-gay rights people, or trying to say abortion is wrong? Or both? People are allowed to abort regardless of the reason, some people abort children because of the gender of their child, I find that as heinous as aborting a child because of its sexual orientation. I suppose if they have the right to have an abortion, we can we say about the reasons? Even if we did ask the reasons, they could easily lie.

As for the two following paragraphs:
Yes, some people overcome their genetic disposition through the influence of their environment (some don't have a great environment). I don't think it would mean that that system is automatically scrapped. People already try to say they had horrible childhoods making the way they are, but not everyone abused turns out to be criminals. You'd have to prove that its completely caused by genetics, and you cannot come above those genetic dispositions, which would be hard to proove. And if you did prove it, you are still a danger to society, at the very least you'd be institutionalized, perhaps for your whole living life instead of 25 yrs or less, because if you can't control it we can't ever let you out, now can we?

Yes, we are greater than the sums of our parts or parts. But why should homosexuals be expected to change their behavours, like criminals?

Edited by sierraleone, 28 August 2004 - 10:22 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#49 WildChildCait

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:31 PM

on  social stigma and being threatened

err.somebody please tell me if I need to edit this for expliciteness, but is it possible people feel more threatened by gay men because, biologically women are designed to be recipients and men to be err..perpertrators? I as a (As far as I can possibly tell) straight woman, do not feel in any way threatened by gay men, in fact, i've been known to go 'guy watching' with some, but is it possible straight men feel threatened because they fear that would put them in the recipient and thus the 'feminised' role and that makes them feel uncomfortable?

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#50 Chakotay

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 01:49 PM

Personally I don't feel threatened by gays. Just leaves more women for me and less competition from other single men... :D

I'm not trying to make a judgment here, the technology is in it's earliest stages at present, but the risk is there for a form of eugenics to start to develop, with parents disposing of children with unwanted traits. We already do it with Downs syndrome and some other problems, when detected. There is a tremendous social pressure on parents not to refuse the abortion and thus place themselves and the community in the position of having to care for a 'handicapped' child.  Where would it end?
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#51 Jude

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:02 PM

Umm...I'm guessing most of you are familiar with the Christian viewpoint that homosexuality is not biological, based on several Bible texts that say how people abandoned 'what is natural' for homosexual relations? I know most of y'all probably don't care/are unconvinced/whatever, but I just wanted to be sure my group's viewpoint is represented. :blush:

Boy, I stink at this discussion stuff.  :wacko:  :crazy:

#52 Josh

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:06 PM

^

Not all Christians believe that.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#53 Jude

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:08 PM

Well, I did say 'the Christian viewpoint blah', not 'the only Christian viewpoint'. 'One of the Christian viewpoints'. Tenses, bleh.

EDIT: I really wish I could meet one of the Christians that sides with homosexuality in discussion. I don't know any in real life. :unsure: Do you know any here on ExIsle I could PM with?

Edited by Erisinia, 28 August 2004 - 05:10 PM.


#54 ZipperInt

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:09 PM

Everyone stinks at this discussion stuff Erisinia, it just depends on what kind of smell we have! :)

Quote

Umm...I'm guessing most of you are familiar with the Christian viewpoint that homosexuality is not biological, based on several Bible texts that say how people abandoned 'what is natural' for homosexual relations?

I am familiar with that Christian viewpoint, but as Josh points out, not all Christians believe that, and other official viewpoints the Church has are also disagreed with by many of its members.
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#55 Josh

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:12 PM

^

Which, I might add, is extremely entertaining to watch. ;)
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#56 Jude

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 05:13 PM

Hmm...say, where does one find 'official church viewpoints'? The bit about homosexuality is my own personal belief from Bible study, I've never seen an actual statement 'The Baptist Chruch believes the following blah'

#57 Chakotay

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 06:16 PM

I think you'll find that the Christian Church in general holds each individual responsible for their actions, and doesn't tend to go along with any 'biology' excuse for any particular behavior, good or bad.

Edited by Chakotay, 28 August 2004 - 06:16 PM.

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#58 sierraleone

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 12:34 AM

Erisinia: Don't worry about it... while I pick at what you said ;) :D j/k, well kinda  :blush: I'm shameless at trying to disect arguements, not out of trying to hurt people or anyone, but to understand where people come from, and where their lines are drawn, which can tell you lots.

As for the Christain viewpoint of some that is it not biological because homosexuals have chosen 'unnatural' paths.... First of all, I don't think DNA (or an equivilant) was mentioned in the bible. Though I'm sure freewill was, but then, please feel free to correct me, I'm no expert on the bible.  

Second of all, many animals follow these unnatural paths of homosexuality according to some studies. Are not all animal acts automatically natural? (natural doesn't make it right or wrong, just saying).

Also, natural vs, unatural is such a human dictomy, and a false one to boot. Poo is natural, but it sure is stinky :) As with many human vices. One could argue everything is natural. Something that isn't natural doesn't exist, everything is of this universe, if you take it to the extreme.

But that doesn't stop God from stating what is how he meant for us to live. He could have very well have imbued us with these impluses (and put those seeds in animals to pass on to us when we evolved, assuming you try to cross the bible and evolution) and had meant for us w/ our free will to overcome them to meet w/ him in heaven. And perhaps we interpretated God's word as unnatural, when we should have interpreated it instead as abnormal (not normal), improper, purposeless, wrong, immoral, incorrect, astray, deviant, unregular, aberrant.... As everything is created by God, and is therefor natural, even the Devil, but to follow the devil to go against God, and could be called evil. I suppose I'm calling evil, natural. But I'm not calling natural good or evil, just is. I hope I'm making sense, its too late at night :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#59 WildChildCait

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 03:07 PM

Erisinia,

Nothing personal, but i'm not a christian and i'm willing to bet not everyone who is gay is christian..why should I or they care what the bible has to say?  
it is just the works for one religion.


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#60 Jude

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 03:30 PM

sierra; Don' fret. :D I'm no Bible expert myself. And personally I like your idea of God giving us the impulses to be resisted; for instance, I do believe that some people are biologically more inclined to be alcoholic (I think that's it?) so it's not outside the realm of possibility. Which would make sense with the animal aspect; they don't have souls. Totally different creatures. :upside: But God also said that there are no trials too great to be overcome.

And I think there's a whole realm of 'natural' as different for the physical and the spiritual that I'm missing. But I'm no philosopher. :crazy:

Chaddee; I did mention that I didn't think anyone would really care ;) but I needed to mention it. Please, what do you mean by 'it is just the works'?



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