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OT Staff Announcements 2004

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#21 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 06:50 PM

Drew, on Aug 28 2004, 06:30 PM, said:

1) Is that the thread in which I apologized to Hambil immediately after? Funny. I thought that meant something.

I hoped it did, but as soon as you didn't like a topic he posted it came out again.

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2) Are you now insinuating that RR is a troll?

I can see how that conclusion could be reached, but no.  I'm talking strictly about his "Concerning Trolling" thread naming Hambil as a troll and then his explosive diatribe on exit.

Knowing that he left such a legacy to the place he characterized as peopled with idiots and syncophants would, I expect, make him highly amused.

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There was no request for clarification, but I gave it anyway. Are you saying that you willingly ignored what I had to say because it suited your purpose to believe the worst about me?

I was talking about you asking for clarification from him.   You simply jumped right again to the conclusion that because he posted something you didn't like, he was a troll.

As for thinking the worst about you, we've watched each other for a long time on this board.  I think you can be charming and incisive, but that you don't like being opposed.  I've seen your reactions many times when it's happened.  So, I do, like you, have expectations.

That is why this moderation action was not taken singly by me, but in discussion with the staff.  I'm just posting my POV on it.

Ro

#22 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 06:53 PM

Delvo, sorry to be imprecise. Yes, I do know you were the one who revived the thread saying. "RR was right. I and multiple others were wrong."  

You were referring to the troll accusation, right?

But it was Drew who linked a thread started by Hambill to that trolling discussion, under the link heading "You make the call".

I mentioned in my post to Drew what I meant about RR. Sorry for the confusion.

Ro

#23 Shalamar

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 06:56 PM

EVERYONE Listen up

I have said it before this is all about perception.

Drew, honestly you do come across as a bully, as some one whose tender sensibilities must be kowtowed to or you will go off on a martyr complex. I'm not trying to be personal,  just making a perception call from your posts scattered across the forum for over a year now.

but I did not make that warning on a whim, in a vaccum, or to please myself.  I was fully aware of how you would probably respond to it.

You don't see yourself as doing anything wrong because you have very carefully kept on the letter of the law, but darn it man, you have violated it in spirit.  I'm not trying to bully you, but please take a look at it though others eyes..
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#24 Drew

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 07:15 PM

Shalamar, on Aug 28 2004, 06:54 PM, said:

You don't see yourself as doing anything wrong because you have very carefully kept on the letter of the law, but darn it man, you have violated it in spirit.
The last refuge of the truly desperate. He didn't do anything wrong, so we have to divine intent from his posts, and assume that he was parsing his words carefully so as to attack people without actually attacking them.

This is beyond lame.  :glare:

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I have said it before this is all about perception.

And thus you build your arguments on sand.

Edited by Drew, 28 August 2004 - 07:16 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#25 Rov Judicata

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 07:42 PM

Okay...

Two parts:

I just did a quick search of recent posts which I believe are relevant tot he situation.

The ones I turned up:

http://www.exisle.ne...opic=19091&st=0

Posts 401893, 401915, 401973, 402047.

And:
http://www.exisle.ne...showtopic=19568

Post 403859

Ro already stated our line of reasoning pretty clearly. Given the high tensions-- and due in part to the conflict between you and Hambil the day before-- we interpreted your posts in a certain way. If we misread you, I apologize for that; I maintain, though, that it was a reasonable reading based on the facts we had.

As for the public/private dichotomy: We thought that the notice about troll-labeling not being tolerated should be public. We ask people to edit in public on a fairly regular basis; I don't think that this was materially different from that. The only real difference is that it was posted in a separate, rather than the same, thread.

I'd also point out that there are no material consequences from this whole mess. You didn't lose the ability to post on EI or in any forum. All that happened is that we called you out for what we believed to be bad behavior.. which happens every time a mod intervenes in a thread, which is fairly common.
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#26 Drew

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 08:33 PM

And my final post on the "Concerning Troll" thread:

Quote

Well, you're right. I apologize, Hambil. Many of your posts today sent up warning flags, and I was beginning to wonder. Mea culpa!

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

And yes, the next day I did question one of Hambil's threads, telling him that he was setting off my warning flags again. And I explained myself in my PM to Ilphi (because we were told not to post anything on the board) that I was hoping Hambil could see why people were wondering about his post, whether it was just flame-bait, and yes it made me wonder as well.

And you, Rov, in that very thread, quite easily listed why someone might look at that post and see it as nothing more than flame-bait. One might even "divine" that you were calling him a troll. :suspect:

But hey, let's slander one of our long-time members and make a public spectacle of him. We can make it look like we're doing something about the tone in the OT, even if it's just symbolic, make everyone feel good, and the only cost is one member.

I'm tired. I'm having some pie and going to bed.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#27 LaughingVulcan

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 05:18 PM

Drew, when I read things you've posted, most of the time you come across as being very passionate and very logical.  While I don't always agree with what you write, I do believe you have the conviction of your spirit.  Indeed, I think you do have a point that is at this point no longer relevant.

That said, perceptions are indeed important.  Much as I wish they weren't sometimes.

Shalamar may be right.  She may be wrong.  She is a mod with a very difficult job.  She has not only the right, but the responsibility, to act in accordance with being a Moderator.

I support her, here and now, most publicly.

'Nuff said by someone who tries to stay out of OT as much as possible these days.

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#28 Bouree57

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 06:00 PM

Drew, on Aug 28 2004, 08:31 PM, said:

But hey, let's slander one of our long-time members and make a public spectacle of him. We can make it look like we're doing something about the tone in the OT, even if it's just symbolic, make everyone feel good, and the only cost is one member.

I'm tired. I'm having some pie and going to bed.
The cost is much too high.

Drew, I'm a new member of this forum and while I haven't known you as long as others, I respect you. You are passionate about your beliefs. That's a good thing. But there are many sides to every person on this forum. Looking at a person from just one side will give you a skewed perspective.

I'm lucky in that I knew Hambil from posts in other areas. So my perspective of him was he couldn't be a troll. However having read RR's thread accusing him and then viewing the Olympic thread, I still found some doubt in my mind for a split second. That's RR's fault and it's my fault. I take full responsiblity for letting someone else color an opinion I had of him when I should have been giving him the benefit of the doubt. Hambil deserved the benefit of a doubt. But thanks to all the accusations, all he got was doubt.

You deserve the benefit of a doubt as well. We all do, in fact. I do not believe that you are doing anything more than trying to protect Ex Isle. But accusations are a cancer. Let's not give in to them.

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#29 Godeskian

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 01:49 AM

Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, in fact, i tend to believe people should be innocent untill proven guilty, a courtesy that was NOT extended to Hambill.

let's not compound that one error by making more. Shalamar was put in a very difficult position, but it was a position discussed and agreed upon in the SL. The one thing she doesn't deserve for agreeing to take on that very difficult task of making our decisions public is scorn.

Drew, I am not interested in witchhunts or spectacles or any of that stuff. You're covered by that innocent untill proven guilty thing to you as well.

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#30 StarDust

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 06:46 AM

If I've got this right ....

No one can 'divine' that someone is trolling or throwing flame-bait,  but ...

People can 'divine' that someone thinks some is trolling or throwing flame-bait????


This whole thread make absolutely no sense what so ever.  It's totally illogical.

#31 LaughingVulcan

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 11:53 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "divine," there.

I think people do make assumptions about other's motivations, correctly or not.

I would consider placing those assumptions in a public post - asserting that somebody else is baiting or asking for flames - out of bounds conduct for myself.  I would consider that to be showing somebody else fundamental disrespect, by pretending I know why someone is doing what they do.

The board staff has to act sometimes, when they think people have violated rule 1.  I'm assuming myself that part of the reason for warning somebody is to let them know they're close to the edge.  I'd rather be warned then have a post deleted or edited automatically.  (That's happened to me before.  I never returned to that board again.)  At any rate, I believe they have the obligation to tell someone when the staff feels that someone has violated a rule (or nearly so.)

I suppose I'm writing this in the hope that it might seem more logical.

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#32 Ogami

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 12:48 PM

Thank goodness I am a moderate.

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