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Bush gets post-Convention bounce

Election 2004 GW Bush Post Convention Bounce

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#21 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:31 PM

Kosh, on Sep 8 2004, 02:27 PM, said:

First I've heard of it.
I haven't heard of it either.

Edited by Drew, 08 September 2004 - 02:31 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#22 MuseZack

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:36 PM

Here you go:

http://impostorsyndr...ormations_.html

Pardon, if you will, a blog entry that runs into Geoff Nunberg's and/or George Lakoff's territory.

While reading coverage on both sides of the political spectrum regarding the scandal du jour in American politics, the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" advertisements, I noticed that right-leaning folks often talk about "the Democrat party."  The DNC and official sources all refer to that organization as "the Democratic party," which I had always presumed was correct.  (In fact, official usage in the media and at the DNC all favors "Democratic party.")  "Democrat party", seems to be a back-formation from Democrat, a member of the party.

Bush has used the phrase "Democrat party", viz a recent citation from CNN:


"Does the Democrat Party take African-American voters for granted? It's a fair question," Bush told the Urban League's annual convention."

This usage, which runs contrary to official and normative usage, strikes me as an odd attempt to delegitimize the organization by renaming it; however, searching on that phrase yields a number of links to local DP organizations (as well as plenty of foreign "X-Democrat" parties -- social democrat, christian democrat, etc).  But media use of the term seems to be almost exclusively limited to conservative sources, viz. below.  In the top 50 hits for "Democrat Party", all links not to/from DP organizations are conservative sources.  On a search for "Democratic Party", no media link was found until hit #78, not a conservative source.


List of media links containing the phrase "Democrat party" (of top 50 hits from Google that are not links to DP local orgs or foreign organizations):
[1] ScrappleFace, a satirical blog entry (hit #25)
[2] Intellectual Conservative (hit #37)
[3] An article on Democrats and racism (hit #42)
[4] That Liberal Media, a conservative site (hit #45)




List of media links containing the phrase "Democratic party" (of top 100 hits from Google that are not links to DP local orgs or foreign organziations):
[1] A blog covering the DP national convention (hit #78)
[2] A memo at an online community (hit #93, though this might also be called a party organization)
[3] A column by Michelle Malkin, a conservative columnist.  (hit #98)




Mass-media usage:
[1] The only mention at the New York Times is a correction to the printed version of Bush's quote above, which notes that Bush said "Democrat Party" and not "Democratic Party" (which the Times had originally cited).
[2] Unsuprisingly, hits at FoxNews include numeous editorial uses, particularly from the conservative talk show "Hannity and Colmes".
[3] Searches on "Rush Limbaugh" + "Democrat Party" yield quotes "straight from the horse's mouth", while searches on "Rush Limbaugh" + "Democratic Party" skew toward sources from the left commenting about Rush Limbaugh.
[4] Foreign usage wavers:  a few posts at the BBC use the phrase "Democrat Party," but the normative usage seems to be "Democratic Party" for the US Party.


This seems to confirm that "Democrat Party" is a right-wing usage.  Whether there's something more insidious afoot in this usage, or whether it's just a badge of political identity like "nucular" or "HAR-assment" remains to be seen, but that's no longer a linguistic issue.

Edited by MuseZack, 08 September 2004 - 02:45 PM.

"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#23 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:39 PM

I dunno . . . it looks like an outrage in search of a scandal to me. The guy who wrote the above (you should put it in quotes, Zack, or people may attribute it to you) admits to an interest in linguistics. But I don't see anything diabolical here.

(Sigh. Remember when the big scandal was whether there was a subliminal "rats" in an RNC ad? Those were the days . . . )

Edited by Drew, 08 September 2004 - 02:44 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#24 StarDust

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:44 PM

Drew, on Sep 8 2004, 03:39 PM, said:

I dunno . . . it looks like an outrage in search of a scandal to me.
:lol:

#25 Kosh

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:45 PM

Yeah, if that offends Democrats, they need a thicker skin.
Can't Touch This!!

#26 Drew

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 02:48 PM

Quote

however, searching on that phrase yields a number of links to local DP organizations (as well as plenty of foreign "X-Democrat" parties -- social democrat, christian democrat, etc).  But media use of the term seems to be almost exclusively limited to conservative sources, viz. below.  In the top 50 hits for "Democrat Party", all links not to/from DP organizations are conservative sources.  On a search for "Democratic Party", no media link was found until hit #78, not a conservative source.
But doesn't this essentially disprove this man's paranoia? I just put "Democrat Party" in Google, and the entire first page is links to Democratic Party sites. If the Democrats themselves are using this phrase, then where's the scandal? The fact that it takes him until #78 (so he says . . . I didn't look that hard) to find a media site (that isn't even a conservative media site) also disproves his theory. If the phrase "Democrat Party" is supposed to be a conservative smear, he's not doing a very good job proving it.

Edited by Drew, 08 September 2004 - 02:50 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#27 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 03:16 PM

I think this ranks up there with sports commentators and other sports figures who use the term "untracked" to mean "on track"; annoying, but hardly important.

#28 MuseZack

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 05:19 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 8 2004, 08:16 PM, said:

I think this ranks up there with sports commentators and other sports figures who use the term "untracked" to mean "on track"; annoying, but hardly important.
You're right;  it's not important, but it is annoying.

Now, back on the subject of the thread...

Have you seen my Bush bounce?  I hope everyone enjoyed it while it lasted.  Because:

New ICR poll, conducted September 1st-5th ...

With Nader, among 'likely voters': Bush:46, Kerry: 46, Nader: 4.

Without Nader, among 'likely voters': Bush 48, Kerry 47.

Without Nader, among 'registered voters': Bush 46, Kerry 47.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#29 Morrhigan

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 07:29 PM

Good to see you back, Zack. :D
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#30 MuseZack

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 07:43 PM

Morrhigan, on Sep 9 2004, 12:29 AM, said:

Good to see you back, Zack. :D
Tanned, rested, and ready, baby! :cool:  :ninjadeath:
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#31 Cardie

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 08:00 PM

Totally OT, but Steve Bacic was showing you and Ash a lot of love at Dragon*Con over the weekend.

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#32 StarDust

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 09:11 PM

yes I'm sure the Gallup poll is involved in the great right conspiracy, but just in case ....

Quote

 
September 06, 2004
Bush Gets Small Convention Bounce, Leads Kerry by Seven
Post-convention poll shows Bush 52%, Kerry 45% among likely voters


by Jeffrey M. Jones


The CNN/USA Today/Gallup post-Republican convention poll -- the first national poll conducted entirely after the completion of that convention -- shows George W. Bush has received a small increase in voter support. Bush’s share of the vote among likely voters increased by two percentage points, from 50% to 52%, while Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry’s share dropped by an equal amount, in the two-way race. Bush now leads Kerry by 52% to 45% among likely voters, compared with a 50% to 47% lead for Bush prior to the convention. Bush received an identical two-point bounce among registered voters, though the two candidates remain essentially tied among this group.

And another link there at Gallup talks about how only twice out of the last 17 elections was someone in Kerry's position on labor day able to win.

Quote

Only 2 out of the 17 elections exhibit all of the developments Kerry would need if he is to win this year (i.e., more than a 7-point gap change and a lead change):

    * 1980, with Reagan's 14-point "gap change" and eventual victory after Carter had been ahead on Labor Day

    * 1948, with Truman's 13-point "gap change" and eventual victory after Dewey had been ahead

The four other races in which the lead narrowed significantly for the candidate ahead on Labor Day (1996, 1976, 1968, and 1964) ultimately did not experience a lead change; the candidate ahead on Labor Day won, albeit by smaller margins than the Labor Day estimate would have predicted. However, as noted, the final outcomes in 1976 and 1968 were close to a lead change, although the Labor Day leader eventually won.

I'm sure the latest flip-flops are helping much.  Partisanship aside, could Kerry possibly get worse advisors than he's had, one after another.  I know my left leaning friends are so totally disgusted at this point they just can't believe it.

#33 Ogami

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 12:36 PM

MuseZack wrote:

Shalamar, the use of "Democrat Party" isn't a mistake. It's a longstanding linguistic device used by extreme rightists for quite some time now who think that by using it they're somehow delegitimizing the Democratic Party. If someone could point me to the exact etymology of the term and the history of how it came to be used by Limbaugh, Gingrich, Lott and the like, I'd be appreciative.

The term "Democratic" does not accurately describe the mindset, actions, and philosophy of the modern Democrat party.

It's not extreme to notice that pro-life activists have no place, no voice, and no permission to speak within the Democrat party.

It's not extreme to notice that Zell Miller had no place, no voice, in the Democrat party. Same for Joe Lieberman, to a lesser extent. Anyone catch the silence when Lieberman spoke at the convention, and said they should applaud America's military for its efforts? No democracy of thought permitted or welcome there.

The Democrat party has been co-opted by its kook fringe, where Michael Moore, Dennis Kucinich, Ted Kennedy, and Noam Chomsky now better represent the cross-section of views.

It shouldn't take a conservative to notice the change, despite Zack's indefensible claim. Go back and look at the Johnson/Goldwater election time period. The Republican party is so moderate under this president that Goldwater wouldn't be able to recognize it. The Democrat party, on the other hand, is now exclusively the domain of the McGovernites. The Democrats hawks who supported Johnson's unilateral war are all gone now.

Zack can complain about the extreme right as much as he wants. But it won't help his ultra-left party win elections. Ask Dukakis.

-Ogami

#34 Delvo

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 01:25 PM

Ogami, on Sep 11 2004, 11:36 AM, said:

The term "Democratic" does not accurately describe the mindset, actions, and philosophy of the modern Democrat party.
It would be less argumentative to say it doesn't exclude the Republican Party, which is also just as "democratic" (in the common sense of the word referring to democratic republics as opposed to other forms of government) but is implied not to be so by the word "Democratic" being applied only to one party... which is why the Democrats insist on using it that way.

#35 Ogami

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 01:38 PM

Zack was right, it was a deliberate joke by conservative pundits. Reading some of the posts, how this is a horrendous smear against Democrats, I have to wonder how some people manage to make it out of their beds every morning if the "ic" omission offends them into explosive fury. Now that's extreme.

-Ogami

#36 Bouree57

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 09:11 PM

Ogami, on Sep 11 2004, 01:38 PM, said:

Zack was right, it was a deliberate joke by conservative pundits. Reading some of the posts, how this is a horrendous smear against Democrats, I have to wonder how some people manage to make it out of their beds every morning if the "ic" omission offends them into explosive fury. Now that's extreme.

-Ogami
Okay, let's be fair. He said it was annoying and he didn't seem to in an explosive fury. Also, he is a writer. They tend to be rather specific when using words. Call it occupational hazard when conversing with them.

Democratic Party sounds much more formal to me. But the difference between the two is lost on me.

democrat  1) an advocate of democracy. 2) a member of the Democratic Party

democratic  1) practising, advocating, or constituting democracy or a democracy.

That's from my Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary. Copywrite 1991. Hmmm. Maybe it's time to buy a new dictionary?

-- B
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I may make you feel but I can't make you think.
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He who made kittens put snakes in the grass.
He's a lover of life but a player of pawns.
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#37 Ogami

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 12:32 PM

It's time for an update. How about "Intoleracrats"? You have to march lockstep with the liberal special interest groups (gay rights, abortion, entitlements, anti-western culture) to fit in. Otherwise you're on the outs like Gephardt, Lieberman, and Miller.

Given the expansive amount of press demanding that Bush be held to account for his illegal war, unjustly removing Saddam Hussein, perhaps they can now call themselves "Saddamocrats".  After all, Bush was selected, not elected, whereas Saddam was easily elected in every election. That makes him just a victim of the evil of Bush. Free Saddam!

-Ogami

#38 Shalamar

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 12:57 PM

Ogami If you want to make such assertions, please do not couch them as fact.  

Theses may be your opinions, your beliefs but to say them as 'facts' is simply intolerable.
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Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#39 GiGi

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 01:10 PM

Ogami, on Sep 12 2004, 10:32 AM, said:

It's time for an update. How about "Intoleracrats"? You have to march lockstep with the liberal special interest groups (gay rights, abortion, entitlements, anti-western culture) to fit in. Otherwise you're on the outs like Gephardt, Lieberman, and Miller.

Given the expansive amount of press demanding that Bush be held to account for his illegal war, unjustly removing Saddam Hussein, perhaps they can now call themselves "Saddamocrats".  After all, Bush was selected, not elected, whereas Saddam was easily elected in every election. That makes him just a victim of the evil of Bush. Free Saddam!

-Ogami
What a twisted way of thinking.  Good thing it is quite untrue.
"Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do all creatures." -- HH The Dalai Lama

#40 Bouree57

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 06:13 PM

Ogami, on Sep 12 2004, 12:32 PM, said:

Given the expansive amount of press demanding that Bush be held to account for his illegal war, unjustly removing Saddam Hussein, perhaps they can now call themselves "Saddamocrats".  After all, Bush was selected, not elected, whereas Saddam was easily elected in every election. That makes him just a victim of the evil of Bush. Free Saddam!
I'm bothered that much of the news points to Iraq as an illegal war too. I won't deny that it is a big mess over there. I'm not sure we had any right to expect it to be easy to fix. The Middle East always seems very volitile to me. So not much has changed in that regard. It doesn't help that the terrorists are all from that area as well. So it's never just one country we have to deal with. It's al Qaida, Tawhid and Jihad too.

I'm pretty tired of the "selected not elected" rhetoric too. It's not true and just shows that some haven't gotten over losing. We are where we are. We can only move forward from here. I wasn't happy about Clinton winning any election, but I accepted him as my president because he was MY president.

-- B
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout!
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.
(from Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull)

He who made kittens put snakes in the grass.
He's a lover of life but a player of pawns.
(from Bungle in the Jungle--War Child, JT)



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