Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Israel threatens to bomb Iran

Israel Iran Bomb Osirak Nuclear Complex

  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#1 Fire_Storm20

Fire_Storm20

    I love the smell of napalm in the moring...

  • Islander
  • 187 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 05:38 AM

According to CNN, Israel is threatening to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities in a move not unlike their complete destruction of the Osirak nuclear complex in Iraq before it could become operational in the 1980's.  Looks like they also ordered a nice pile of ordinance from the US, bunker busters.  Am I the only one to get a feeling of deja vu here?   :crazy:

Looks like an attempt to preserve Israeli nuclear superiority in the middle east.  If this thing happens, and Iran has nukes, it ain't gonna be pretty folks.  CNN Article

Edit: Typographical Error

Edited by Fire_Storm20, 23 September 2004 - 06:01 PM.


#2 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 05:56 AM

Well heck, isn't a policy of pre-emptive strikes a good thing

that's what everyone keeps telling me anyway

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#3 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 06:42 AM

Great. Let's just have WWIII.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#4 gadfly

gadfly

    Romantic Progressive

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:29 AM

Iran's response.

This has been going on for months now but both Isreal and Iran have been testing missles lately so it's heated up particularly the closer Iran comes to openly producing weapons grade material.


What bothers me is that this business may unite the people of Iran, to the benefit of the current regime, which is sad because there's been quite a bit of little social resistance episodes going all over since the hardliners have taken back control and clamped down on things such as women's dress, blogs, newspapers and the like.

Edited by gadfly, 23 September 2004 - 12:49 PM.


#5 aphrael

aphrael
  • Islander
  • 282 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:32 AM

:grr:

#6 emsparks

emsparks
  • Forever Missed
  • 2,426 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:50 AM

My guess is that Iran is doing what it is doing now, spurred on by the evidence of our military weakness. Military weakness due to how weve proceeded in Iraq. I mean why should Iran listen to the UN or the United States, there is no creditable conventional power to take them on.

Bush has won in Iraq, all things considered in Iraq its all over but for the shouting and bombings. The Iraqi people, and their growing economy will not allow a civil war. Yes there will be factional fighting in Iraq for a number of years to come but it will die down.

Iran on the other hand, once they have a bomb they will use it, and there is a slim possibility that North Korea will back them up. After all they have a common enemy, us.

So as I see it Israel is going to be the first to pay the price, no matter who fires the first shot. Nuclear war in the Middle East is coming. The big question is where will the Chinese and the Russians align. Most likely China will side with Iran just to screw the Russians, who have no love for the Iranians.

Sparky::
Sparky::

Think!
Question Authority, Authoritatively.

#7 gadfly

gadfly

    Romantic Progressive

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 07:55 AM

But the Russians are the ones who are helping them build Iran's facilities.  I do know why you say that though.  Russia, or the former Soviet Union, has had their eye on Iran for a long time and the U.S. has intervened in Iranian politics before in the name of preventing Russia from taking over Iran's oil.

More info from globalsecurity.org

Edited by gadfly, 23 September 2004 - 08:18 AM.


#8 gadfly

gadfly

    Romantic Progressive

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 08:13 AM

Article from the Asia Times from an Iranian journalist based in Paris.

Here are some interesting quotes:

Quote

"Not only do we invite you, we also welcome whole-heartedly countries to invest in our nuclear program for civilian purposes," Mohammad Hossein Mousavian, the secretary of the political department of Iran's Supreme Council on National Security (SCNS), told Asia Times Online.

Quote

Iran has a stated aim of having 7,000 megawatts of nuclear power online by 2020, accounting for 10% of the country's power-generation capacity at that point. To achieve this, it plans to build at least six more plants besides the one under construction in the port of Bushehr, on the Persian Gulf, with assistance from Russia. This plant will consist of a 1,000MW pressurized-light-water reactor and is scheduled to go online in 2005.

This is very interesting:

Quote

Iran's call for countries to invest in huge, multibillion-dollar nuclear projects goes first to France and Germany because these two nations are already familiar with Iran's nuclear market, as Germany was almost finished building Iran's first nuclear-powered plant and France had started building two others in the oil-rich province of Khouzistan when the Islamic Revolution of 1979 halted them.

and this as well:

Quote

"Israel is a political enemy with which we don't have a border. But Arabs don't like us. See what they write in their papers," he explained, referring to a recent article in the Saudi English-language Arab News in which veteran journalist Abdul Rahman al-Rashid alleged that Iran's efforts to become a nuclear power were aimed at the Arabs, not Israelis


#9 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 09:50 AM

I sure can't blame Israel if they strike at Iran to prevent them from getting their hands on nukes.  A nuclear weapon in the hands of Iran would be a knife held at Israel's neck.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#10 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:11 AM

Isn't the fact that Israel can make this threat a knife to the throat of Iran?

Edited by Cyberhippie, 23 September 2004 - 11:11 AM.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#11 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:46 AM

gadfly, on Sep 23 2004, 12:29 PM, said:

What bothers me is that this business may unite the people of Iran, to the benefit of the current regime, which is sad because there's been quite little social resistance episodes going all over since the hardliners have taken back control and clamped down on things such as women's dress, blogs, newspapers and the like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sad indeed.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#12 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest
  • Guest

Posted 23 September 2004 - 12:32 PM

I think that if we simply stopped giving support to Israel, and there's no rational reason to give them supposrt other than guilt over WWII, the Israeli government would be much more willing to talk with people instead of throwing their weight around like that. :(

#13 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:00 PM

Quote

Cyberhippie: Isn't the fact that Israel can make this threat a knife to the throat of Iran?
No it is a knife aimed at Iran's nuclear program.  I would love to see you explain how that nuke program is essential to the survival of Iran?

The fact is that Iran having nukes in a direct threat to the survival of Israel as a nation.  Unlike the US or many of the hypocrites that dominate Europe Israel can't afford to say well they can't reach us if they have nukes.  Iran has missiles that can reach Israel and all they need are the nukes to mount on them.  Now as a nation that has been attacked multiple times over from her very creation should Israel really allow the Mad Mullahs to get nukes?

Quote

I think that if we simply stopped giving support to Israel, and there's no rational reason to give them supposrt other than guilt over WWII, the Israeli government would be much more willing to talk with people instead of throwing their weight around like that.

Yeah they are after all the only country that remotely approaches democracy in the Middle East.  Then they have only been attacked from day one by all their surrounding neighbors with many of them still maintaining policies and terms for peace that would mean the destruction of Israel.  The Israelis are not saints or victims but they do what they have to in order to survive.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#14 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:06 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Sep 23 2004, 07:00 PM, said:

Quote

Cyberhippie: Isn't the fact that Israel can make this threat a knife to the throat of Iran?
No it is a knife aimed at Iran's nuclear program.  I would love to see you explain how that nuke program is essential to the survival of Iran?

You mean after president Bush declared it part of the Axis of Evil and threatened it's continuance???

as a deterrent, after what happened to Iraq, i'd say they have a pretty good case that it's a requirement for their national security.

for the record, I don't like the idea of an Iran with nuclear weapons, but it occurred to me (though not terribly seriously) that maybe they are looking for nuclear power, as opposed to nuclear weapons.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#15 gadfly

gadfly

    Romantic Progressive

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 01:14 PM

^ Yes, Khatamei's line has always been that the plants are for power to free up some of their natural resources for export.  I might be inclined to believe him if it weren't for the fact that he's a lame duck president who had limited power to begin with.  The newly "elected" Majlis is dominated by the conservatives because the ruling council of mullahs declared many of the reform candidates ineligible and I don't understand the ruling council's motives, other than self preservation, at all.  Again, this is not something new.  The sabre rattling has been going on for months, if not years now.  It just seems to be coming to head - perhaps.

#16 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 02:49 PM

Quote

CH: You mean after president Bush declared it part of the Axis of Evil and threatened it's continuance???
And Bush should have done a classic Carter/Clinton and tried to deal with the mad leaders of Iran who are out of touch with reality?  Of course in a decade we would have another North Korea on our hands, armed with nuclear weapons, and us not being able to do a thing about it.  Anyway Iran was seeking nuclear weapons long before Bush ever came along and he just stood up to them on it.  

Quote

CH: as a deterrent, after what happened to Iraq, i'd say they have a pretty good case that it's a requirement for their national security.
Again they were seeking it well before Bush or Iraq ever came on the scene.  And when it comes to Iran and the regime there anything that hinders the continuance of the regime or keeps them from getting nuclear weapons is good.

Quote

CH: but it occurred to me (though not terribly seriously) that maybe they are looking for nuclear power, as opposed to nuclear weapons.
I'm pretty sure the Mullahs and Iranian government doesn't give a thought to having electric lighting in every house.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#17 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:00 PM

Fair enough, but CJ you aren't looking at this from their perspective.

From their perspective, they do need a deterrent against the US, and against Israel, and what better deterrent than a nuke?

which was actually the only point i was trying to make.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#18 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:03 PM

No from their pov they must have these weapons to strike down the zionist menece that holds the holy sites. The nukes will let them do so in a easier manner.

They have never thought of defense but how to attack Israel.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#19 gadfly

gadfly

    Romantic Progressive

  • Islander
  • 1,333 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:08 PM

Isreal isn't their only enemy.  They're not Arab, even though they are Muslim, and there's quite a bit of animosity between them and their Arab neighbors.  Then there's us and the fact that many polls on American-Iranian based sites believe Bush is preparing to attack Iran next although CJ is right in that Bush is not the first president to protest Iran's nuclear ambitions which makes him not unique in that.  What's different is that fact that Iran now has missle delivery systems capable of hitting Isreal and anybody else, US bases included, in the region so the point has come much more to the forefront.

#20 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:11 PM

No arguement about other enemies but they have said time and again that they will do all that they can to destroy the state of Israel. Why assume that they have changed from that position when they have not claimed to?
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Israel, Iran, Bomb, Osirak Nuclear Complex

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users