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Jimmy Carters speaks on Florida

Voter Suppression Election 2004 Jimmy Carter Florida

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#41 gaius claudius

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 01:57 PM

Mr.Calgary, on Sep 28 2004, 02:36 PM, said:

From opinionjournal.com (I get it everyday....I don't know if others have to register if they follow the link....if so, let me know) 

http://www.opinionjo...ml?id=110005682

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I registered...the article made some good points...but after all the articles and various proofs I've seen asserting differently...I have to stick to my opinion...or at least see more evidence..I definitely agree that politicians arecertainly able to use this whole controversy to whip up black support...

But once again..I can't argue that getting more blacks to is a bad thing...whether the controversy is true or not

I fully admit to being overly sensitive on the subject..but with my country's and my family's personal history on the matter...I don't apologize for it..


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#42 gaius claudius

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 02:03 PM

G1223, on Sep 28 2004, 02:52 PM, said:

So are  you saying that it's all the Man keep you down?  All White people want is to get rid of you. If that was the case why haven't they done it.

If you reread my post...you'l realize I never said anything of the sort, nor have a made a single comment about "all white people"...I understand your position..but at the same time I find your comment about "the Man" insulting to say the least..I don't think you meant it that way..so let's just drop it..


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#43 Rhea

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 05:22 PM

Nonny, on Sep 28 2004, 07:02 AM, said:

G1223, on Sep 28 2004, 02:51 PM, said:

gaius claudius said:

2nd..the problem with this so caled rule...as it was applied in Florida..a good majority of people kept from voting...were not convicted felons, but people of color whose name was mistakenly put on the list
People who commited no crime at all...except for being black..

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First  the law if it is like indiana's  if convicted of a felony you lose the right to vote.

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You are ignoring pertinent information.  How about taking another look at what gc posted?

Nonny
edited in a forlorn attempt to, once again, straighten out the quote boxes.  Sigh.

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Gordon, before you respond you should at least READ the article in question. These are people who were denied the right to be registered voters NOT because they were felons, but because some idiot mistakenly (or not so mistakenly) thought they were. Florida has a nasty history of keeping black people from voting. I'm not sure what century they're in (maybe the 19th) there, but apparently they forgot to get the word that Lincoln freed the slaves and the South lost the war.  :ninja:

Here are some other links to the problem of black voters being disinfranchised in Florida:

http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/1112505.stm

http://www.ucc.org/j...s/wfj090604.htm

Quote

This would be a Black History lesson from a generation ago except that these same tactics are now being used in Florida by Governor Jeb Bush. New York Times columnist Bob Herbert recently wrote about visits made to dozens of elderly African American voters in the Orlando area by Florida state troopers, who were "investigating" charges of voting fraud. Most of those questioned were members of the Orlando League of Voters, which has successfully mobilized the city’s African American electorate. The Orlando League of Voters is headed by 73 year-old Ezzie Thomas. Shades of Albert Turner and Marion County.

If one did not know African American history across the South, this effort to intimidate elderly African American voters might be explained away as a too zealous law enforcement problem. But when one considers that it was also recently uncovered that the Jeb Bush administration tried to eliminate thousands of African American voters from the voter rolls by designating them as "felons" while keeping virtually all Hispanic voters (who are deemed more likely to vote Republican), the curtain of innocence begins to fall away. And when one considers that this very same tactic of cleansing the voter rolls was used in Florida in the 2000 election, it becomes downright illegal, unconstitutional and should make every American citizen angry.

The old folks used to say if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Intimidation and elimination of African American voters in Florida walks and talks like voter suppression. Maybe we’d better bring in outside observers to Florida not just on Election Day, but in the months leading up to it.

http://abcnews.go.co...ters001129.html

Quote

This presidential election was the first in which Chonchitia Mitchell was eligible to vote.
    
    The 22-year-old Jacksonville, Fla., native, who is black, was looking forward to it: She was, she says, particularly concerned about the issue of Social Security.
     But when Mitchell, the mother of two young children, showed up at a local church where she thought she was supposed to vote, she says the elections clerk told her she wasn’t on the list of registered voters.
     Then, Mitchell says, the woman, who was white, told her to come back the next day. By then, of course, polls would have been closed.
     “I didn’t know what to do and it upset me,” says Mitchell. “She asked me who was influencing me to vote. And I was like, ‘No, I am a grown woman and it is my right to vote.’”

Quote

Like Mitchell, hundreds of voters have claimed they were unfairly turned away from voting on Election Day or to have become so confused by the ballot that they voted incorrectly. In Duval County, where Mitchell lives, 27,000 ballots, or nearly 10 percent — multiples higher than the state average — were not counted because the voters did not vote properly. Of those, 42 percent came from the county’s four predominantly black voting precincts.
     Four days after the election, the NAACP held hearings and has since compiled 300 pages of testimony that include accusations of voter intimidation, people being turned away at the polls, polling sites being closed without notice and legitimate interpreters barred from helping non-English speaking voters, said John C. White, a spokesman for the civil rights group.

As far as I'm concerned, instead of going on about how Carter's trying to "skew" the coming election, we should all be hanging our heads in shame that these kind of shenanigans are still going on.

Edited to add: Carter is not the only expert forseeing problems with this election..and not just in Florida:
http://story.news.ya...ction_observers

Edited by Rhea, 28 September 2004 - 05:43 PM.

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#44 Nonny

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 07:57 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 28 2004, 04:44 PM, said:

...the nefarious Katherine Harris....

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Hey, something we agree on!  That's what I call her too!   :lol:

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#45 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 09:43 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 28 2004, 11:41 AM, said:

Yeah, you gotta register!

Highlights please!

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:blush:  oops.

Opinionjournal.com - Tuesday Sept. 29th said:

REVIEW & OUTLOOK

The Florida Myth
Spinning tales about 2000 to boost black turnout.

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

In case you were lucky enough to miss it, here's a recent fund-raising letter from New Jersey Democratic Senator Jon Corzine:

"Voter suppression and intimidation . . . in Florida again!? The GOP used voter intimidation and outright fraud to hand Florida to George W. Bush in 2000, and if we don't stop them, they'll do it again."

Yes, the political urban legend that black voters in Florida were harassed and intimidated on Election Day four years ago is making a comeback. Only yesterday Jimmy Carter, fresh from blessing Hugo Chavez's dubious victory in Venezuela, moaned that in 2000 "several thousand ballots of African Americans were thrown out on technicalities" in Florida, and that this year more black than (Republican) Hispanic felons are being disqualified to vote--as if all felons weren't supposed to be barred, regardless of race.

As the Corzine letter and the "Jim Crow" pamphlet nearby suggest, this is all election-year demagoguery. Democrats and their acolytes are raising this myth from the dead to scare up black turnout and lay the groundwork for challenges in court if John Kerry loses. So, before Dan Rather concludes this is another scoop, let's all remember the fraud that didn't happen in 2000.

In June 2001, following a six-month investigation that included subpoenas of Florida state officials from Governor Jeb Bush on down, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights issued a report that found no evidence of voter intimidation, no evidence of voter harassment, and no evidence of intentional or systematic disenfranchisement of black voters.

Headed by a fiercely partisan Democrat, Mary Frances Berry, the Commission was very critical of Florida election officials (many of whom were Democrats). For example, "Potential voters confronted inexperienced poll workers, antiquated machinery, inaccessible polling locations, and other barriers to being able to exercise their right to vote." But the report found no basis for the contention that officials conspired to disenfranchise voters. "Moreover," it said, "even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred," let alone racial discrimination.

The Justice Department's Civil Rights Division conducted a separate investigation of these charges and also came up empty. In a May 2002 letter to Democratic Senator Pat Leahy of Vermont, who at the time headed the Judiciary Committee, Assistant Attorney General Ralph Boyd wrote, "The Civil Rights Division found no credible evidence in our investigations that Floridians were intentionally denied their right to vote during the November 2000 election."

Peter Kirsanow, a Republican member of the Civil Rights Commission, told us in an interview that "the press has tried to spin what happened in Florida into something sinister. But there's a disconnect between what was actually found [in these various investigations] and how it's been portrayed."

Senator Corzine's letter references the New York Times, where heavy-breathing columnists are trying to link a routine investigation of voter fraud in an Orlando mayoral election with a statewide effort by Governor Jeb Bush to intimidate blacks into staying home in November. Elsewhere, the NAACP and People for the American Way have issued a report claiming that "intimidation" led to racially motivated voter disenfranchisement in Florida. These and other left-wing groups are planning to dispatch 5,000 lawyers nationwide on Election Day in the name of "voter protection," presumably to prevent a "repeat" of something that didn't happen the first time.

Another prong of the attack on the legitimacy of the Florida outcome, at least as it pertains to the notion the black voters were intentionally disenfranchised, is the number of black voters whose ballots were spoiled. The Civil Rights Commission concluded that blacks were more likely to spoil their votes than whites by a factor of 10 to 1. Other investigations put that ratio closer to 3 to 1. In any case, the numbers are educated guesses extrapolated from sample precincts because ballots don't record the race of the voter.

But the idea that racial animus rather than all-around incompetence produced higher spoilage rates for blacks, or accounted for their misplacement on the infamously inaccurate "felon purge list," is fanciful at best. In Florida, as in many other states, the manner in which elections are conducted, including all of the essentials of the voting process, is determined at the county level.

Which leaves the "stolen election" crowd with these inconvenient facts: In 24 of the 25 Florida counties with the highest ballot spoilage rate, the county supervisor was a Democrat. In the 25th county, the supervisor was an Independent. And as for the "felon purge list," the Miami Herald found that whites were twice as likely to be incorrectly placed on the list as blacks.

The real spectacle here is that some Democrats are only too willing to exploit the painful history of black voter disenfranchisement for some short-term partisan advantage. And it just might backfire. Democrats played up the Florida fiasco in the 2002 midterm elections, repeatedly telling blacks that their votes hadn't been counted in 2000. Rather than being riled up, many black voters believed what they were told and stayed home.

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#46 StarDust

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:00 PM

Kosh, on Sep 27 2004, 02:34 PM, said:

Name one person who has overseen more elections then Jimmy Carter has, since leaveing office. You can't do that over and over again and not come out of it with a good understanding of elections.
Except he didn't have a vested interest in those other situations.  He's popped up rather regularily during this campaign period making various statements that could definitely be seen to have a purpose.  To ignore that purpose is irresponsible.  Doesn't mean he's wrong or he's right, but there is no way it's just about a neutral stance on whether the Florida elections can be valid or not. That's clear in the way it reads, how it's written, the dubious connections it makes and so forth.

It is clear that he is trying to say the 'bad Republicans' are doing bad things and slanting it that way.  He's not saying the process still hasn't been fixed, he's saying something quite different.  He should be ashamed of himself.

He accused Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood, a Republican, of trying to get the name of independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader included on the state ballot, knowing he might divert Democrat votes.

Since when would it be undemocratic to get someone but on the ballot.  It's just because the Democrats don't want Nader on the ballot, but he's been on there for decades, he's on the ballot in other states now.  Actually, it's "fixing" on the Democrats part trying to keep Nader off the ballot. Totally irregular and we all know why.

"A fumbling attempt has been made recently to disqualify 22,000 African Americans (likely Democrats), but only 61 Hispanics (likely Republicans), as alleged felons."

Do they know that there are more Hispanics that are felons but registered to vote, and less blacks? Where is the evidence that there are felon hispanics that are being allowed to vote?  To say that there have been problems over all the years with black voting in Florida is one thing (and that has  nothing to do with the country).  To say that black are being unfairly stopped when hispanics that should be stopped aren't, is a totally different thing with obvious slant job intentions.

Isn't it rather racists and stereotyping to say that because you are black or hispanic you will vote a certain way, like they aren't capable of independent thought?  Democrats are making a lot of assumptions. I know many of both groups and they are each as independent thinkers as anyone else.  Most of the people I know, black, white, male, female, etc resent people assuming they will vote a certain way because of those attributes.  It wasn't that long ago that Democrats were assuming Hispanics would vote for them, my how things have changed.

Mr Carter said Florida Governor Jeb Bush - brother of the president - had "taken no steps to correct these departures from principles of fair and equal treatment or to prevent them in the future".

Has Jeb taken no steps?  What has the legislature done?  Has it been gridlocked because no one can agree?   If they are having huge problems as Rhea has stated, that doesn't mean nothing is being done, not by a long shot.  Especially since, as pointed out, other states are having similar problems.  They are having lots of problems, quite different from stating the Jeb is doing nothing.


This whole thing is a one sided slant job, attempting to seriously skew what is happening to imply something else all together.

#47 G1223

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 10:56 PM

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#48 gaius claudius

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 07:19 AM

Quote

To say that there have been problems over all the years with black voting in Florida is one thing (and that has nothing to do with the country).

I really don't understand how a segment of voting population...any segment, being denied their right to vote...either by accident or by intent...has nothing to do with the rest of the country...

Quote

Has Jeb taken no steps

Why should he...when according tohim there's no problem

Quote

Isn't it rather racists and stereotyping to say that because you are black or hispanic you will vote a certain way, like they aren't capable of independent thought? Democrats are making a lot of assumptions. I know many of both groups and they are each as independent thinkers as anyone else. Most of the people I know, black, white, male, female, etc resent people assuming they will vote a certain way because of those attributes. It wasn't that long ago that Democrats were assuming Hispanics would vote for them, my how things have changed.


Yes..it is racist, so doesn'teven make it worse itf someone is trying to interfere wth their voting rights.....and by the way...according to stats from the past few elections..the Hispanic vote in Fl usually goes Republican..Democrats aren't asssuming anything as far as  they're concerned

Wowww...you know black people...

What's that like?? :devil:


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#49 Ogami

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 11:43 AM

I thought it was cute that Jimmy Carter was outraged by the fact that Ralph Nader had been permitted to be on the ballot, hinting that this was Republican dirty tricks.

Two things, O most brilliant of presidents:

1) Ralph Nader might have wanted his name on the ballot too. Unless you are against people having the right to run for president. (Wasn't this Carter's chief concern every time he oversaw the election of dictators in third-world countries?)

2) The Florida Supreme Court was the right-wing extremist cabal that said Nader could be on the ballot. You remember them from Florida 2000, don't you? You don't?

Someone help Carter with his memory. It was only four years ago.

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#50 HubcapDave

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 11:48 AM

Nonny, on Sep 28 2004, 05:57 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on Sep 28 2004, 04:44 PM, said:

...the nefarious Katherine Harris....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, something we agree on!  That's what I call her too!   :lol:

Nonny

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Nonny, let me explain a little thing to you called "sarcasm"......;)

#51 Nonny

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 03:48 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 29 2004, 04:48 PM, said:

Nonny, on Sep 28 2004, 05:57 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on Sep 28 2004, 04:44 PM, said:

...the nefarious Katherine Harris....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, something we agree on!  That's what I call her too!   :lol:

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Nonny, let me explain a little thing to you called "sarcasm"......;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd love to hear your explanation, since you obviously didn't recognize the sarcasm in my post.  Was my :lol: confusing?  Would it have been more clear if I had put a  :p or a  :rolleyes: or a  :sarcasm: ?  Or is my brand of sarcasm too light-hearted for you?   :look:

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