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Teen Suspended Over Civil War Weapon

Gun Control Teen Replica Musket School

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#21 Rov Judicata

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 03:57 PM

Here's a better example of zero tolerance madness, courtesy of Fark:

http://www.nbc12.com...d=1031778530651

Quote

A King William County woman is questioning the county school district's zero-tolerance policy on weapons. Joyce Heath says her eight-year-old son returned to school yesterday after being suspended for seven days, because he carried a butter knife to school with his lunch.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch reports that Nicholas, a third-grader, had been suspended for ten days and faced the possibility of being placed in disciplinary classes for a year. But Heath met with School Superintendent Brenda Cowlbeck on Tuesday, and the suspension was lifted.

St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

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#22 Bad Wolf

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 04:16 PM

Show an interest in history and go to jail?  Is that serious Nonny?  Aren't there ways of showing interest in history without bringing guns to school?  Or should we now award monument status to historical guns and make their presence legal (around kids no less) where they otherwise would not be.   :blink:
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#23 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:32 PM

Absolutely Lil.  Classic weapons like that were used because they killed people, not because they were neat or anything.

Rhys, no one's saying we should totally ignore the ACW.  Of course there should be movies on the topic.  I would much rather they didn't glorify a collection of men in gray who were traitors to their country, but I can't get everything I want. :D

#24 jon3831

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 07:23 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 14 2004, 09:24 AM, said:

So, if it had been, say, a Vietnam reinactment and the kid had forgotten a rifle in his trunk would anyone be blinking that he'd be in trouble?  I fail to see the problem.  He had a gun in his trunk at school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I'm actually a little freaked here... I agree with Lil on something relating to firearms issues.   :eek:

Under the law, firearms on school grounds is strictly verboten, and the kid should've known better. Besides, I don't see how he could've "forgotten" it, unless he wasn't paying attention. My personal thought? When you're transporting firearms, even blackpowder ones, you should be aware of their location at all times.

As far as the actual law that says you can't keep unloaded, cased firearms locked up in your car on school grounds? That's another thread. ;)
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#25 Rhea

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 08:26 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 14 2004, 01:16 PM, said:

Show an interest in history and go to jail?  Is that serious Nonny?  Aren't there ways of showing interest in history without bringing guns to school?  Or should we now award monument status to historical guns and make their presence legal (around kids no less) where they otherwise would not be.   :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I suspect it's a matter of context. He brought an entire costume complete with authentic weaponry as a big kid show-and-tell. I hardly think that's  a reason to cuff him and arrest him. I'd be a little more worried if he belonged to the SCA and brought a sword. :p :p You'd be a lot more likely to harm someone with a sword than a musket.

(And I'm gun-phobic, having, at the ripe old age of 5, stumbled into a situation where my friend's mom blew her brains out in the bathroom and her son and I walked into the empty house and found her.  :eek: )
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#26 Bad Wolf

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 10:06 PM

jon3831, on Oct 14 2004, 05:23 PM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 14 2004, 09:24 AM, said:

So, if it had been, say, a Vietnam reinactment and the kid had forgotten a rifle in his trunk would anyone be blinking that he'd be in trouble? I fail to see the problem. He had a gun in his trunk at school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I'm actually a little freaked here... I agree with Lil on something relating to firearms issues.   :eek:

Under the law, firearms on school grounds is strictly verboten, and the kid should've known better. Besides, I don't see how he could've "forgotten" it, unless he wasn't paying attention. My personal thought? When you're transporting firearms, even blackpowder ones, you should be aware of their location at all times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The end must truly be night.  I agree with Jon.
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#27 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 02:42 AM

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 14 2004, 11:24 AM, said:

  I fail to see the problem.  He had a gun in his trunk at school. 

Lil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The article said "replica" that could be an actual gun...or it could be a prop. If an actual gun, yes the school was right. If it was only a prop though...better cancel all school plays. We wouldn't want students arrested for having replica swords while they performed shakesphere now would we?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#28 Nonny

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 08:03 AM

Rhea, on Oct 15 2004, 01:26 AM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Oct 14 2004, 01:16 PM, said:

Show an interest in history and go to jail?  Is that serious Nonny?  Aren't there ways of showing interest in history without bringing guns to school?  Or should we now award monument status to historical guns and make their presence legal (around kids no less) where they otherwise would not be.   :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I suspect it's a matter of context. He brought an entire costume complete with authentic weaponry as a big kid show-and-tell. I hardly think that's  a reason to cuff him and arrest him. I'd be a little more worried if he belonged to the SCA and brought a sword. :p :p You'd be a lot more likely to harm someone with a sword than a musket.

(And I'm gun-phobic, having, at the ripe old age of 5, stumbled into a situation where my friend's mom blew her brains out in the bathroom and her son and I walked into the empty house and found her.  :eek: )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

{{{{{{{{{{{Rhea}}}}}}}}}}}

My mom was the only family member who saw my dad.  I can't even imagine.   :(  

This is a matter of context for me too, because he had the entire costume.  He's a kid.  He forgot.  Sure, punish him, but not with handcuffs and police and an arrest record.  Teach him not to do it again, not that one goof up means that the rest of his life is now officially ruined.  

My snappy comeback is a take off on "use a gun, go to jail," Lil.  He didn't use the gun.  He had it in the wrong place at the wrong time, with the rest of his costume.  

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#29 Nonny

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 08:07 AM

jon3831, on Oct 15 2004, 12:23 AM, said:

Under the law, firearms on school grounds is strictly verboten, and the kid should've known better. Besides, I don't see how he could've "forgotten" it, unless he wasn't paying attention. My personal thought? When you're transporting firearms, even blackpowder ones, you should be aware of their location at all times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a lot of "should" and "could" here.  Maybe he wasn't paying attention.  Maybe he was putting aside all thought of fun weekend stuff in order to concentrate on his school work.  Maybe he was worrying about a test.  I can see how he could have forgotten it while worrying about a test.  

Maybe adult reenacters should take responsibility for the weapons of adolescent reenacters and maintain an armory, handing them out and collecting them.  Maybe weapons should not be considered part of the costume, but a potential problem for individual underage reenacters.  

Nonny

Edited by Nonny, 15 October 2004 - 08:13 AM.

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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#30 Shalamar

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 03:53 PM

Nonny - I believe in gun control and gun safety - of the version of "you control your gun, you are responsible for the safety of your weapon" - if you are adult enough to have one you Must be responsible for it.

This teen was clearly not responsible enough to have one. He should never have forgotten he had it in the back of his truck. I don't care if he was thinking about homework, a test, or getting to school in time.

And I have zero tolerance for guns at school, other than in the hands of those properly authorized to have them.  He should have known better, he should have removed the gun from his truck and stored in his home.

I believe he should face some stiff community service hours, with his records sealed if he is still a juvenile ( but don't they do that any way for juveniles? ) and no more reenactment fun untill those hours are paid off.

How ever it doesn't say if he was a minor or not - if he was 18 or better well he's no juvenile and I say let the arrest record stand
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#31 Rov Judicata

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Posted 15 October 2004 - 03:58 PM

I concur. A lot of crimes are commited with stolen guns, and losing track of your gun is a great way to get it stolen. Really, with any luck, this will teach him to keep track of where his firearms are.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#32 Vapor Trails

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 12:39 AM

Silent E The Transmuter, on Oct 14 2004, 12:16 PM, said:

That young man needs to find something more constructive to do.

And I don't mean X-box.  :p

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No comments on his mom? She obviously supported him.

As the saying goes: "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

:eh:

Edited by Digital Man, 16 October 2004 - 12:40 AM.

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#33 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:09 AM

Shalamar, on Oct 15 2004, 03:53 PM, said:

And I have zero tolerance for guns at school, other than in the hands of those properly authorized to have them. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Of course. We saw how well guns in the hands on police were, when they raided a SC High School. Coming in like nazi storm troopers, guns drawn only to find nothing. I hope the parents in that situation sued both the police and the school.

Regardless. I still haven't heard for certain it was an actual gun. I've only heard the term "replica" which could very well mean a stage prop. If it was a stage prop then the school was totally out of line, and should be made to pay.

If, OTOH it was an actual fire-arm...that's something else entirely.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#34 Smitty

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:22 AM

offworlder, on Oct 14 2004, 03:19 PM, said:

It is a widely known fact, so relax and accept, that school officials have zero tolerances with weapons, or drugs, or even a kitchen knife for a class project>> because if they don't they are fired by parents groups who have full power with school districts, those parents are the taxpaying citizen 'Public'.
:ninja:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was a recent story where a student was suspended because they had a butter knife that they used for spreading peanut butter and jelly on their sandwich.

-cs™

#35 Smitty

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:26 AM

Hotspur Rovinski, on Oct 15 2004, 03:58 PM, said:

I concur. A lot of crimes are commited with stolen guns, and losing track of your gun is a great way to get it stolen. Really, with any luck, this will teach him to keep track of where his firearms are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny it was in his truck IOW his private property.

Until some nervous ninny saw it and thought another Columbine was in the making.

Goodbye 4th Amendment, but maybe not, just thinking out loud. :)

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#36 Bad Wolf

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 02:56 AM

Note that the following (as is the case with everything I've said in this thread) presupposes that we're talking about a real gun.

"The right to bear arms".  Simple words really.  There's nothing in there about *where* one can do something.  For example, the Constitution does not say that a person can carry a gun into someone's house or into a school.  There's nothing in the constitution about *what kind* of arms one can bear.  And yet here is someone who has a rifle in the back of his truck in a school parking lot (speaking of private property...their property, their rules) and now suddenly it's a constitutional issue or maybe even an anti confederacy one simply because the weapon happens to be part of a reinactment and it's now fashionable to defend the confederacy.  

He had a gun.  On school grounds.  Where is the issue here?  If it had been in his locker would that make a difference?  What about in his back pack (also his private property)?  Why is this okay simply because it's some kind of part of a costume?

:wacko:
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#37 Shalamar

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 11:01 AM

Smitty - I agree with Lil - there is no Constitutional involvement.

The problem is not that he owned the gun but where it was...on school grounds.
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#38 Nonny

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 11:31 AM

Here's a thought: any kid who might get into serious trouble for thoughtlessness should stop going to school.  

Yes, of course I'm being sarcastic.  

I don't believe this kid should have his entire life ruined over this.  

No sarcasm there.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#39 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 11:38 AM

Guns are serious things.  He should be taught a stern lesson.

#40 Nonny

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Posted 16 October 2004 - 11:45 AM

Stern lesson, yes.  Ruin the rest of his life, no.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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