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Teen Suspended Over Civil War Weapon

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#61 RobL

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 09:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Norville:
Oh, let's see... I've mentioned that my parents lived through WWII, so if you want to do the math, I think it must've been back in the 1950s. What business is that of yours?
Hey, you are the one that mentioned it. Don't like people commenting, keep your mouth shut.

And excuse me for not catching the fact that your parents lived though WWII.

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No, RobL is much ruder, seeming to feel the need to make nasty comments to Rhea (though he actually showed me some "mercy") because she dislikes guns, due to her experience of finding a suicide. Guess what, RobL, you can't tell other people what psychological effects they should have due to an experience. They react the way they react, despite your wanting to command them to think the way you say they should. Ooh, you've seen dead bodies and have no compassion for those who don't like it. More power to you, dude.

I have no problem with her having psychological problems. What I have a problem with are people who insist on taking the easy out, and blaming inanimate objects for there woes, instead with the problems with society that caused the person to use the inanimate object in the first place.

#62 Shalamar

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 09:53 PM

RobL you might want to stop and think before pontificateing on something you don't know but the minutest of facts about. It's insufferably arrogant and rude - she has never said she blames the gun, just that she is gun phobic because of an incident witnessed as a child.
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#63 Rhys

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 09:57 PM

Silent E The Transmuter, on Oct 17 2004, 09:39 PM, said:

Are you and Rhys the same person?

Um... most definitively no.

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I said above: of course it should be studied...but not glorified like this kid is doing with a bunch of old geezers who probably saw the Civil War in the newspapers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I rather doubt there are a lot of 140-year-olds involved in any sort of historical reenactment these days.

You have a very strange view of what historical re-enactment is about.  Again, while I haven't done ACW, Rev War, or 1812 re-enactment, I do know that these people aren't out there to re-fight the wars, they're looking for a hands-on study of the history.  Not just the battles, either, but other aspects of daily life at the time.

You also seem to make the assumption that this individual is a Confederate in the re-enactments...  I'm not sure where you got that.


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#64 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:12 PM

Rhys, on Oct 17 2004, 09:57 PM, said:

Silent E The Transmuter, on Oct 17 2004, 09:39 PM, said:

Are you and Rhys the same person?

Um... most definitively no.

Quote

I said above: of course it should be studied...but not glorified like this kid is doing with a bunch of old geezers who probably saw the Civil War in the newspapers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I rather doubt there are a lot of 140-year-olds involved in any sort of historical reenactment these days.

You have a very strange view of what historical re-enactment is about.  Again, while I haven't done ACW, Rev War, or 1812 re-enactment, I do know that these people aren't out there to re-fight the wars, they're looking for a hands-on study of the history.  Not just the battles, either, but other aspects of daily life at the time.

You also seem to make the assumption that this individual is a Confederate in the re-enactments...  I'm not sure where you got that.


Rhys

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Sarcasm, dude.  :sarcasm:

No I didn't assume this kid was a confederate...not sure where YOU got that.  I DID say that Civil War reenactment was glorification of a war that was totally unnecessary and a black eye for the US.

#65 GoldenCoal

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:42 PM

I don't see reenactors as glorifiers of a war. I think what they are trying to do is make sure that people remember the Civil War, I think they want to spark interest. Once someone gets the spark, then they can find out how miserable and awful the Civil War was.

  Some people play sports, some play chess, others write, and some... do Civil War re-enactments. Once, my class and I went to a museum and a reenactor showed us his gear and told us about life as a soldier and I also once went to a presentation by a WWII reenactor, and both and very interesting things to say.

   There is more to being a reenactor then going out and pretending to shoot at each other, you also learn a lot of history about the war and what the conditions were for soldiers back then. I think there are worse ways to spend one's time.

#66 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:54 PM

Oh, you want to spark interest in Civil War history?  Ok.  Why don't we take some African-Americans, put them in chains, whip them, starve them, and make them work for a month or so in the heat and dirt...just so some people can come see it and learn something.  That cool?  :blink:

You wanna learn about the Civil War?  Read a book.  Dressing up like Stonewall Jackson or whoever is glorifying a senseless slaughter.  Not cool in my book.

#67 Kevin Street

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:06 AM

Silent E, please. Let's keep the personal comments to a minimum. GoldenCoal is expressing a perfectly legitimate opinion about about how some people spend their spare time. It doesn't really warrant such an emotional response.

RobL, your lack of compassion for others is startling. Please think about how your comments sound. Would you talk that way to someone if they were sitting right next to you?
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#68 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:09 AM

What personal comment would that be?

#69 Kevin Street

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:13 AM

Sorry, I mispoke. You weren't using any personal comments. I was actually talking about the exchanges further up the thread.

#70 GoldenCoal

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 09:44 AM

Silent E The Transmuter, on Oct 17 2004, 10:54 PM, said:

Oh, you want to spark interest in Civil War history?  Ok.  Why don't we take some African-Americans, put them in chains, whip them, starve them, and make them work for a month or so in the heat and dirt...just so some people can come see it and learn something.  That cool?  :blink:

You wanna learn about the Civil War?  Read a book.  Dressing up like Stonewall Jackson or whoever is glorifying a senseless slaughter.  Not cool in my book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


   I don't see what your first point. Reenactors don't actually kill each other, so why is that similar to what you are suggesting?

  What is your opinion about documentaries that use reenactors to show people what happened during a battle? Is that still glorifying war?

  I suppose my problem is, I don't know where your coming from. I don't know why exactly you think that reenacting is equal to glorifying. Just because someone dresses up as a confederate soldier does not mean that person thinks everything the Confederates did was great.

#71 Nonny

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 11:46 AM

Norville, on Oct 18 2004, 02:25 AM, said:

Nonny said:

Norville said:

if you're transporting a gun, you *should* pay attention, serious attention.
Heck, if you're driving a car, you should pay serious attention.

I never said any different, so let's not argue about that...

Re: my mentioning that my father cleaned up after a friend's gun suicide...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, let's not argue.  I came back here today to post something snarky about what would happen if we enforce every law to the extreme, mostly out of disgust for all the weekend pilots who buzz my community because we complain about their failure to stick to legal airways, maybe add another dig at Laura Bush, who actually killed somebody due to her carelessness, but I'm not feeling up to it just now.  

Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.  My father killed himself.  He used a gun.  I don't know who cleaned up after him (and now I'm wondering, because it couldn't have been my mom, and I can't ask her), but the only sign in the house a few hours later was the hole in the wall, and even that got plastered and painted over soon.  I usually don't start obsessing about this until late January, and I get over it by the fifth of March, but you never know what will bring on a painful memory.  

Before I get any deeper into Why Did You Do It, Daddy, let me say that I am not upset, nor am I blaming anybody about bringing up suicide, since it is a topic that I myself wish people would speak about more freely, and perhaps free my dad's surviving family to talk about it and free ourselves from the hurt.  Frankly, an open discussion of suicide, preferably without all the fire and brimstone stuff my sibs and I have been treated to over the decades, would be excellent.  Anybody up for it?  

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#72 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 01:23 PM

Kevin Street, on Oct 18 2004, 12:13 AM, said:

Sorry, I mispoke. You weren't using any personal comments. I was actually talking about the exchanges further up the thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh ok. Cool.  :)

#73 darthsikle

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 08:55 PM

The civil war was more about States rights than anything else.  It was here that it was formally decided that a strong central (federal) government would hold sway over the states.

Slavery was just a catalyst issues for this overriding theme.  

War and bloodshed have always been how we prove our point in this world.  Sad, but true.
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#74 Guest-Silent E The Transmuter-Guest

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Posted 18 October 2004 - 09:03 PM

Yeah, uh...what state rights were being contested?

The right to hold other human beings in chains, that's what.

#75 darthsikle

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:04 AM

That's a very simplistic view of the whole civil war, while slavery is abhorable, the views at the time were that it was an OK practice, akin to how people view abortion now and will probably see it in 100 years.
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#76 Bad Wolf

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 01:17 PM

Slavery was a big part of it but so was states' rights.  Let's not forget that the founding fathers did not push the slavery issue from the getgo because they knew they needed the support of some colonies that relied heavily on it.  Or that some of them owned slaves themselves.

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#77 Cyncie

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 04:07 PM

I know quite a few people who are Civil War re-enactors, and they do it because they're history buffs. They like to take hard, cold distant facts and translate them into living history that can be experienced, rather than just read about. None of these people are racists, and they would all be completely baffled that anyone would consider their efforts to be a glorification of slavery.

Historical re-enactors study the time they're portraying, and try to bring it to life for others. And, its not just the Civil War that gets re-enacted. Go to Colonial Williamsburg, or Boonesboro, or any historically significant area, and you'll likely find someone portraying a character from our country's past. Re-enactment uses theater to teach history.

As to the story in question, in light of past concerns with school violence, the kid was foolish to take his gun to school, and should recieve some level of punishment. But his intentions were not violent, and that should be taken into account as well.

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