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I Think Bush Will Win

Election 2004 Bush Ohio

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#41 Nonny

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:12 PM

Dev F, on Nov 3 2004, 10:15 AM, said:

Nonny, on Nov 3 2004, 12:06 PM, said:

In order to keep the Democratic Party viable, it will have to become as negative, backstabbing and whining as the GOP.  Not for nothing did Newt et al start that class on how to win elections by lying.  The Dems will have to lower themselves into the muck and go negative fast and hard in the future.  It works for the GOP, so that's what they'll have to do.   :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. I think if nothing else this election showed how futile it is for us Democrats to go negative, to sell their souls to hatemongers like Michael Moore and hope that dislike of Bush will sweep our candidate into office.

It seems to me that, quite to the contrary, what we have to do is field a candidate who can match Bush on the issue that apparently mattered the most to voters this year -- "moral values." And I don't think that means taking a reactionary stand on abortion or gay marriage. What it means is abandoning the politics of whining and victimization, and finding someone who can passionately argue for the values that liberals think it's important to protect -- civil liberties, fiscal responsibility, strong diplomatic relations -- instead of just against Bush.

I even wonder if touchy issues like gay marriage would swing the other way if a liberal candidate would have the guts to express his opinion in the same morally vigorous terms that the other side employs. To say not, "Well, who are we to dictate whom a person chooses to marry, whether they're gay or straight?" but "If two gay people love and are committed to each other, it is good and right that the law recognize their love and commitment."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope you're right, but recent history seems to uphold the (un)priniciple of going negative first.  I don't like it, I watched it in horror and disgust, and I won't like seeing it escalated for the next election, so I hope you're right.  Trust me on this one, this is not something I want to be right about!   :pout:

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#42 Tricia

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:14 PM

Ogami, on Nov 3 2004, 10:40 AM, said:

For anyone feeling despondent or depressed over anything, help is always available. Call a suicide prevention hotline at:

http://suicidehotlines.com/

(edited at Lil's request)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Ogami...

in light of the previous post that this replaced...still not acceptable...implies the same thing as the first.

Why should any of us be depressed? The  whole mess is over and done with for several years.  WE all go on and try to plan for our futures and live with the choices we have made.  

I'm listening to Bush at this very moment accepting the Presidency....maybe you should take a few lessons from him. He is speaking about unity, not rubbing people's noses in their defeat

Edited by trikay, 03 November 2004 - 03:16 PM.

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#43 Ogami

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:29 PM

Rockhound wrote:

Is there like a serious lack of "sense of humor" about all this? I thought what he said was funny.

After watching the most amazing insults and jokes said about my leaders and my party for my adult life, I would not think anything could offend Democrats.

But then I forgot a central tenet of the Democrat Faith, to live in a state of perpetual offense. Liberals live to be offended, they go through life with several thousand chips on their shoulders, just waiting for someone to knock them off so they can act outraged, offended, and aggrieved. And if that doesn't happen, the liberal will knock the chips off themselves and stamp their feet and complain. It's all a phony act, every time it's tried.

Just another reason why that philosophy no longer resonates with a majority of American voters. People are tired of being victims, of being shoved into groups of victims by Democrats. Democrats organize their whole lives around whatever they've been victimized or offended by. It's quite silly, and sad.

Why not just live life?

-Ogami

#44 Palisades

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:34 PM

Apparently, Ogami and Rockhound think suicide is something to laugh about.
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"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#45 The Tyrant

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:34 PM

Since it is obvious you are not going to stop with these broad generalizations, Ogami, I'm not going to bother....just let me ask this one question:

Just how exactly is the Republican Party any better? Bush is advocating total, perpetual war and making any kind of sanctioned relationship between consenting adults beyond a purely heterosexual one illegal...not exactly my values...

#46 Ogami

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:45 PM

Trikay wrote:

in light of the previous post that this replaced...still not acceptable...implies the same thing as the first.

Rockhound's closing post is extremely appropriate as a response, Trikay:

Dang...it's like everyone's on the "I'm morally superior to you" train.

Pegged you exactly, you're not fooling anyone. No one believes you're standing in a corner, terrified and trembling, because someone made a joke. Nice try, though.

Some people go through life waiting to be offended. (chuckle) If I did that, it would be pretty hard to post on a board populated largely by political opponents, right? That's no way to go through life. Word to the wise, Trikay.

-Ogami

#47 Tricia

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:49 PM

^^^Sorry, but if you just don't get it you never will.


No, I'm not standing in a corner, terrified and trembling because you made a "joke"

Suicide is never funny and if you had ever had anyone that you knew kill themselves you wouldn't think so either...

So please think about the pain things you joke about have caused other people

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#48 Shalamar

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 03:57 PM

Ogami

Quote

But then I forgot a central tenet of the Democrat Faith, to live in a state of perpetual offense. Liberals live to be offended, they go through life with several thousand chips on their shoulders, just waiting for someone to knock them off so they can act outraged, offended, and aggrieved. And if that doesn't happen, the liberal will knock the chips off themselves and stamp their feet and complain. It's all a phony act, every time it's tried.


This is a very sweeping generalization and one I feel is not true in any way.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#49 Ogami

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:03 PM

I feel your pain.

#50 Palisades

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:05 PM

Ogami, on Nov 3 2004, 04:03 PM, said:

I feel your pain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No, you don't. You're just trying to piss people off (and you're not very good at it).
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#51 Ogami

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:08 PM

Solar Wind wrote:

No, you don't. You're just trying to piss people off (and you're not very good at it).

-yawn-

-Ogami

#52 Shalamar

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:10 PM

A truly strong person doesn't need to denigrate or insult others for his self worth is internal and built upon the solid foundastion of self knowledge.

A truly strong person doesn't need the approval of others because they know what they are worth in and of themselves.

A truly strong person recognises that one can be insulted only if they allow themselves to be insulted.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#53 Palisades

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:11 PM

Ogami, on Nov 3 2004, 04:08 PM, said:

Solar Wind wrote:

No, you don't. You're just trying to piss people off (and you're not very good at it).

-yawn-

-Ogami

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Is that the best you can do? Pathetic.
"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

FKA:
TWP / An Affirming Flame / Solar Wind / Palisade

#54 Kevin Street

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 04:15 PM

Shalamar said:

A truly strong person doesn't need to denigrate or insult others for his self worth is internal and built upon the solid foundastion of self knowledge.

A truly strong person doesn't need the approval of others because they know what they are worth in and of themselves.

A truly strong person recognises that one can be insulted only if they allow themselves to be insulted.

What Shalamar said. :coolninja:

Please everyone, let's not go after each other.
Per aspera ad astra

#55 Vapor Trails

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:20 PM

Hey Ogami,

I have a friend who is 37 years old. He tried to get into several branches of the military, and couldn't. Finally, he was accepted by the Coast Guard, who took him for his computer skills.

He was determinded to get in-and was able to do so.

With the faith you have in your re-elected president, I'm sure you'll find the means to get sent to Iraq or Afghanistan.

:)
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#56 Vapor Trails

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 08:24 PM

(computer hiccup)

**burp**

:blush:

Edited by Digital Man, 03 November 2004 - 08:25 PM.

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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#57 Anastashia

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:17 PM

Cardie, on Nov 3 2004, 09:24 AM, said:

Victory may be declared before those ballots are counted, but they will be counted, will they not, eventually?  I think that's the law in Ohio, whether the result would change an outcome or not.  I'm assuming it's the same as with absentee ballots.

Cardie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Steven_Q, on Nov 3 2004, 09:27 AM, said:

Interesting question actually.

What happens if Kerry concedes defeat, the ballots are counted, and eleven days fromnow, Kerry takes Ohio? Would he win retroactivly, or would he give up all claim on the presidency if he conceded.

I'd hate to think what it would do to Bush's mandate to be told two weeks from now that he didn't actually win.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Answered in another thread, but I'm too lazy to search which one right now so...

Nobody's won yet actually. Those electoral votes represent electors who are real people who have a real meeting and elect the president. I can't remember when that takes place. I do remember in 2000 there was a honest concern that their meeting would be delayed, a constitutional issue IIRC, because the results were in dispute in Florida.

Ani
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In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
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For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

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#58 Tricia

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:29 PM

Found the answer and here's the link

Quote

Time Magazine November 1, 2004

The electors meet in their respective state capitals to cast their votes for president and vice president on the Monday following the second Wednesday in December: it's almost as if the founders foresaw the need for recounts. The votes are sealed and sent to the president of the Senate who opens and reads them before Congress on January 6

Edited by trikay, 03 November 2004 - 09:31 PM.

In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change. --Thich Nhat Hanh


You don't need to attend every argument you are invited to


Do not ask that your kids live up to your expectations.  Let your kids be who they are, and your expectations will be in breathless pursuit.


#59 FeFe_Roissy

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:44 PM

Kevin Street, on Nov 3 2004, 09:15 PM, said:

Shalamar said:

A truly strong person doesn't need to denigrate or insult others for his self worth is internal and built upon the solid foundastion of self knowledge.

A truly strong person doesn't need the approval of others because they know what they are worth in and of themselves.

A truly strong person recognises that one can be insulted only if they allow themselves to be insulted.

What Shalamar said. :coolninja:

Please everyone, let's not go after each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



YOu probably shouldn't allow political or religious threads then.
Say My Name............Say My Name
When no one is around you....
Say baby I love you....
You ain't running games
Say My Name.............Say My Name
You're acting kinda shady....
and calling me baby.......

#60 Anastashia

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 09:51 PM

trikay, on Nov 3 2004, 09:29 PM, said:

Found the answer and here's the link

Quote

Time Magazine November 1, 2004

The electors meet in their respective state capitals to cast their votes for president and vice president on the Monday following the second Wednesday in December: it's almost as if the founders foresaw the need for recounts. The votes are sealed and sent to the president of the Senate who opens and reads them before Congress on January 6

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks trikay.

To Time Magazine: the founders saw the need to get the votes collected and counted all manually, get the news back to the elected, and have those people travel to their state capitals on horseback.
The Science Fiction Examiner

In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

Posted Image




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