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Arafat may have died

MIddle East Arafat Coma Palestine

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#21 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:47 PM

Jon: Model would clear up the debate. ;)

Quote

Digital Man: NIETHER the Israelis or the Palestians want peace.
Like the Palestinians have done one thing to create a favourable environment for peace with the Israelis.  As long as the Palestinians continue to demand the right of return why should the Israelis want peace?  It would be on the terms of the Palestinians and mean the destruction of Israel.
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#22 Themis

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:47 PM

I've long wished we (the planet) could erect an impervious dome over the area so they could either settle it themselves or blow each other up.  I don't think the outside world can do any good, the writers for West Wing to the contrary.

Dead or not, it sounds like somebody will have to replace him.  For better or worse.

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#23 Kevin Street

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:51 PM

I disagree that the situation in the Middle East is hopeless. Arafat held back the Peace Process many times, and gave virtual carte blanche to the violent extremist elements within his own people. If a new leader with more sense takes over it could be the start of some real progress toward peace.

Everything depends upon who is running the PA now.
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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 01:54 PM

i'm sort of with Kevin here. I hate to say this about another living person, but his death could open up possibilities, it all depends on his sucessor.

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#25 Vapor Trails

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:28 PM

Kevin Street, on Nov 4 2004, 01:51 PM, said:

I disagree that the situation in the Middle East is hopeless. Arafat held back the Peace Process many times, and gave virtual carte blanche to the violent extremist elements within his own people. If a new leader with more sense takes over it could be the start of some real progress toward peace.

Everything depends upon who is running the PA now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



We'll have to agree to disagree. How long has all this nonsense been going on? 30 years or more?  :wacko:  :crazy:  :sarcasm:

The problem is that the hatreds and the bloodlust simply run too deep. Many on each side hate the other side for the simple reason that they are breathing.

I'm not happy that I'm saying these things-but I'm sorry. Outside of each side blowing the other off the face of the planet, I don't see hope. Each side hates the other WAAAAAAAAAAY too much.

:smirk:

Edited by Digital Man, 04 November 2004 - 02:34 PM.

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#26 Vapor Trails

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:31 PM

Steven_Q, on Nov 4 2004, 01:54 PM, said:

.....but his death could open up possibilities, it all depends on his sucessor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Bah. If I had a penny for every time I've heard about "possibilities" for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians due to X, Y & Z, I'd be richer than Bill Gates a thousand times over.

They don't want peace. And boy, do I wish I was wrong. I'd be OVERJOYED  to be wrong. But you can't ignore the facts. Otherwise, you'd just be living in denial.

:(
Posted Image

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#27 tennyson

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:35 PM

It does depend on where you date the beginning of all this, if you date it from the founding of Isreal and the intial fleeing of Arabs from the region then 1948 sets the date. If you put it at the founding of the PLO in 1963 or 64 I think it was then it would be almost exactly 40 years.

Edited by tennyson, 04 November 2004 - 02:35 PM.

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#28 Vapor Trails

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:38 PM

tennyson, on Nov 4 2004, 02:35 PM, said:

It does depend on where you date the beginning of all this, if you date it from the founding of Isreal and the intial fleeing of Arabs from the region then 1948 sets the date. If you put it at the founding of the PLO in 1963 or 64 I think it was then it would be almost exactly 40 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I have an INCREDIBLY annoying tendency to be right about things I don't want to be right about. Sadly, I think the Middle East situation is one of them.

I'm rarely wrong in situations like this. But I'm overjoyed when I am wrong.

:pout:

Edited by Digital Man, 04 November 2004 - 02:38 PM.

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#29 Kevin Street

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:39 PM

And I think the current intifada started about four years ago. Not sure about that, tho.

#30 Ilphi

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:47 PM

Quote

Kevin Street wrote:
And I think the current intifada started about four years ago. Not sure about that, tho.

You're correct. The war currently raging is the al-Aqsa, or second, inifada. The IDF codenamed it ""Ebb and Tide events" but it is unofficially refered to as the Oslo War in some circles. It began in 2000 rougly with the riots surrounding Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount.

Edited by Ilphi, 04 November 2004 - 02:48 PM.

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#31 Shalamar

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 02:58 PM

There are many who would say that the historical roots for the 'mid east problem' go back far further than a mere 40 years, but stretch back some near 1,000 years to the crusades...

A very large part of me agrees with DM - I don't think they want peace.- It's much easier and more conveinent to keep chanting the mantra of "my great great great grandfather was killed by yours so I'll kill you" rather than grow up, get a grip, get a life and acknowledge while there are tremendous wrongs on both sides - that righting those wrongs will not be easy and neither side may be totally pleased by the out come- but go about righting those wrongs and go forward from point X

It's easier to hate after all.....
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#32 Chipper

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 03:07 PM

Last check at ABC News:

http://abcnews.go.co...Story?id=226873

He isn't dead, just in a coma.
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#33 tennyson

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 03:11 PM

But the Crusades really had very little to do with Judiasm, thier blood ran along the streets of Jerusalem along with the Muslims after the first Crusade retook the city and Jews had been a protected minority in Muslim lands, recieving better tretement than they did in Europe. While the dream of returning to the Holy Land was a deep part of the culture of Judiasm the idea now called Zionism hadn't even been formed until the late 19th century.
Returning to my original point the Crusades really didn't even damage the various Muslim states that much. The fighting was in peripheral areas handled by peripheral muslim states for the most part. Islam had already fractured into dozens of seperate Caliphates and kingdoms beforehand so the Crusades didn't have much to do with breaking the unity of Islam and as far as damage to thier heartland is concerned the 13th century march of the Mongols did vastly more damage to the most productive areas of the Muslim world, the sack of the center of the last Caliphate in Bagdad in 1258, the virtual annihilation of the Muslim city-states of central Asia and thier march all the way to the gates of Egypt caused significantly deeper and more lasting damage than all the Crusades combined. The area from China to Iran has still not recovered from the actions of the Mongols even all these years later. The city-states that used to be some of the most populace areas in the world in the 13th century are still ruins and the population still hasn't recovered. But I have moved far afield from my original point.
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#34 FeFe_Roissy

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:41 AM

I just saw a video of Arafat on Scarborough country and he looks like a freakin' lunatic.   That happens to Parkinson's patients~~they end up with severe dementia/Alz Disease.   They usually end up dying of pnemonia or something.........he will probably be gone within 24-48 hours.  The world will be a better place without him.

Edited by FeFe_Roissy, 05 November 2004 - 12:43 AM.

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#35 Vapor Trails

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:52 AM

Arafat's death may be very near.

http://web.mid-day.c...ember/96304.htm

Quote

A French medical source told AFP that though Arafat was not dead in strictly technical terms, the 75-year-old leader had slipped into an irreversible coma and could only be maintained in his vegetative state through ventilation machines.

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#36 G1223

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:59 AM

Well the body maybe living I hope the soul is someplce of pain.
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#37 Captain Jack

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:06 AM

Shalamar, on Nov 4 2004, 07:58 PM, said:

There are many who would say that the historical roots for the 'mid east problem' go back far further than a mere 40 years, but stretch back some near 1,000 years to the crusades...

A very large part of me agrees with DM - I don't think they want peace.- It's much easier and more conveinent to keep chanting the mantra of "my great great great grandfather was killed by yours so I'll kill you" rather than grow up, get a grip, get a life and acknowledge while there are tremendous wrongs on both sides - that righting those wrongs will not be easy and neither side may be totally pleased by the out come- but go about righting those wrongs and go forward from point X

It's easier to hate after all.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Agreed.  There won't be peace until everyone on both sides are dead.  Any outside help would only make things worse in that matter too since the middle east in general really doesn't care for any sort of western help.

I like the dome idea.  It seems like they are caught up in some never-ending spiral of hate that has been going on for generations.  And the only thing that comes out of hatred is destruction.

As for Arafat, good-bye and good riddance.  I don't really care.  I am sure Hell has saved him a fitting spot.  My only concern is some one far worse taking over.
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#38 G1223

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:21 AM

Israel made peace with Egypt back in the 70's and has not broken that agreement. The Palestians on the other hand have broken truce after truce. Killed people with bombs and suicde bombers. If i am going to trust either side i will take Israel.

Arafat by his orders killed people not many of them soldiers. so he is no freedom fighter. He is a terrorist.

If Israel was the monster they would have taken care of the problem. They have tanks and gunships as well as a army that could buy training do the job if it's needed,but they are not in a dictatorship they have political parties that are wanting peace. They are not willing to lay down their weapons first as they were attacked first.

So while the government is not willing the people of Israel would welcome peace. They just are not going to drop their guard with a people who have proven time and aagain that they are willing to lie if it will get them near soft targets.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#39 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:24 AM

Did you people hear that? It was the sound of my heart breaking...boohoo :sarcasm:

Good riddiance to bad rubbish.
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#40 FeFe_Roissy

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:07 AM

Has that *a$$h*le died yet??   probably serves him right he is dying a slow and hopefully painful death...........................like all the slow, painful deaths he is responsible for.


I hope he lives another week.
Say My Name............Say My Name
When no one is around you....
Say baby I love you....
You ain't running games
Say My Name.............Say My Name
You're acting kinda shady....
and calling me baby.......



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