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OT Partisanship

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#41 Nonny

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 11:31 AM

GiGi, on Nov 6 2004, 08:15 PM, said:



Eclipse, on Nov 6 2004, 09:33 PM, said:

Awesome!  Zack is my hero too!  

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#42 Norville

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 01:46 PM

Number 6 said:

Oh! Oh! I'm offended! I need you to edit your post and take out gross generalizations about Republicans! Hurry, hurry! I cannot bear for these words to continue to exist! Eradicate them! Quickly! Doubleplusgood!!

You're so cute, Number 6. *kiss-kiss, hug-hug*

Ogami said:

A hallmark of liberalism is to go through life waiting to be offended by someone or something.

Hey, Ogami, remember the rather violent offense you took in an argument with Jill Sherwin (Writergroupie), which caused her to leave ExIsle? I also remember a time when you ran away from ExIsle after a fight here, so something must've offended you, don't you think so? Does that make you a *liberal*? ;)

MuseZack said:

Which explains why the whiniest bitches on this board, who went running to the moderators at the drop of a hat crying that they were being discriminated against, tended to be right wingers?

Funny how some feel the need to label me as a liberal, but while I have an explosive temper and say things I may later regret, I very rarely run to authority to protect me from "discrimination". I can think of one time that I asked a moderator here to give someone a talking-to, and shouldn't have bothered (although I guess it beat speaking harshly to someone I found annoying, because people tend to run crying to mommy that the big bad bully spoke *gasp* harshly to them). Everything someone thinks and says and does will be found offensive by someone else ("offensensitivity", as Berke "Bloom County" Breathed called it), and life has taught me that I shouldn't ask for help because anything that goes wrong is automatically my fault. *shrug*

Gefiltefishmon said:

Um, I'm totally NOT depressed about the Bush Victory, I mean, come on, I saw it coming, no surprise here.

Hey, I saw it coming, I knew it would happen, but my nature tends toward depression, so there you go. Let's castigate the depressive for feeling depressed right after the election. :rolleyes:

Gefiltefishmon said:

But as G1223 told me, don't be depressed, FIGHT BACK - as many times as it takes to win.

Oh, but I thought that "fighting back" would be construed as more bad behavior from "liberals"? After all, people were griping a few days ago, and immediately the accusations of "accept the result or you're anti-democracy!" started in. How *interesting*. ;)

Edited by Norville, 07 November 2004 - 01:49 PM.

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Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#43 Nick

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:26 PM

[puts on Friendly Neighborhood Moderator™ hat]

I've said this before, I'll say it again, and this probably won't be the last time:

The election has a lot of emotions on high lately, and there will continue to be emotionally charged folks on all sides making it especially easy to fall into the trap of getting nasty towards each other.  Let's please not let that happen.

There are posts in this thread that I should probably ask for edits on, but I don't feel like wasting mine or you all's time.  But I do want to urge EVERYONE to be especially concious and careful about getting into arguments that make it personal--be it through generalizations, not-so-veiled insults, "you always do this" and "some people like you . . . " etc. type comments.

Remember, there's a person on the other side of that screen.  Argue and debate as vigorously as you like, that's what this forum's here for, but above all: Let's be excellent to one another.

Now, please continue.

Politely. ;)

[/takes off Friendly Neighborhood Moderator™ hat]

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 07 November 2004 - 03:27 PM.


#44 Ogami

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 03:26 PM

Thanks, Rockhound! I've never had a nice button made for me, thank you.
____________________

Banapis wrote:

"That's a perogative of the left, where [insert whatever here]" is a textbook formula for producing an inflammatory generalization. Such generalizations are against the OT guidelines because they almost always derail the thread into a pointless "liberal v. conservative" squabble. They undermine the purpose of this forum and tend to erode the bonds of civility between members.  So I'm asking you again to show some respect for your fellow members and to stop trying to demonize groups by throwing around over-the-top generalizations.

You do realize that this board censors conservatives a lot more than they do liberals or self-described moderate progressives? That was my point, and you, Banapis, just proved it was the truth and not a generalization.
_____________________

Norville oozed:

Hey, Ogami, remember the rather violent offense you took in an argument with Jill Sherwin (Writergroupie), which caused her to leave ExIsle?

You have a faulty memory. I posted my views on Andromeda's production, and Writergroupie advised me that I was ignorant, and when I did not back down, Jill Writergroupie demanded myself and other Andromeda critics be banned. When this was not done she left in a huff. Classic case of an 'open-minded tolerant' leftist demanding other views be silenced. Senator McCarthy lives in the credo of the intolerant left.

I also remember a time when you ran away from ExIsle after a fight here, so something must've offended you, don't you think so?

Even I get tired of defending my opinion against overwhelming odds. It pleases me that there are other conservatives on the board, but that doesn't mean my patience is inexhaustible. Taking a break is often a good thing, there are plenty of other things to do.

This discussion being a good example. Let me go do something more useful with the rest of my day. :wink:

-Ogami

#45 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:14 PM

You know I often have heard the expression that in a argument a good case can be hurt by those who agree with you.  This place is the epitome of it.  Have a I heard democrats say things since the election that has raised my eyebrow in annoyance?  Sure but you know that has been fairly isolated and limited to a few individuals.  What has gotten under my skin is the ungracious winners in this situation many who fall somewhere(many of them on the fringes) of the conservative element that I myself belong to.  Bush won so yay and Kerry lost so yay.  Now get over it and stop dragging every liberal’s noses through the mud incessantly.  

Argue and defend your convictions when you have to but that doesn’t mean vilifying people and spilling out garbage.  We have four more years of a conservative government and it shouldn’t be spent looking back bragging and gloating.  Instead we should be looking to the future to setup policies that will prove to the public why conservative government works.  In addition why they should vote into office in 2008 another Republican who is preferably a political realist and not a neocon. And frankly while I have had issues with the moderation at times I have never once felt suppressed for being a conservative by the moderation.  With that I’ll note I have said things just as conservative as those who scream oppression yet I have not been warned.  This is not a issue of what your political views are but rather how you choose to express them and whether that expression is cordial and non offensive to others.  No our moderation and the pitfalls in it do not come down to where you stand on the political spectrum but rather personality.      

Now anyone want to call me a “'open-minded tolerant' leftist [that is] demanding other views be silenced” through my black listing and censorship?  I’d love to see someone make that case.
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#46 Godeskian

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:22 PM

I'd very much like a "What CJ said" button.

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#47 eryn

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:23 PM

Totally agree with CJ.
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#48 Delvo

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:45 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Nov 7 2004, 04:14 PM, said:

What has gotten under my skin is the ungracious winners in this situation many who fall somewhere(many of them on the fringes) of the conservative element that I myself belong to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And isn't it interesting that the biggest ones only started posting here recently, around election time... almost like... oh, just for an example here... like someone from Troll Kingdom who tried multiple Ex Isle accounts once before got a bright idea when he was informed that it was a giveaway for those accounts to have the same geographic origin, and got some other Troll Kingdom "people" to start accounts for him from their own locations so he could try it again without the geographic giveaway. Purely hypothetically speaking, of course. :angel:

#49 Rhea

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:57 PM

GiGi, on Nov 6 2004, 04:29 PM, said:


Goes for me, too.
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#50 Rhea

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 04:58 PM

emsparks, on Nov 6 2004, 10:32 PM, said:

I've got one problem, with the shield and button, what about Ash, and RHW.

I suggest that Gigi and Eclipse collaborate and design the Ex isle order of the "Golden Typewriter" for service to the community above and beyond.
:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I love it!  :love:  :love:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#51 Rhea

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:00 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Nov 7 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

You know I often have heard the expression that in a argument a good case can be hurt by those who agree with you.  This place is the epitome of it.  Have a I heard democrats say things since the election that has raised my eyebrow in annoyance?  Sure but you know that has been fairly isolated and limited to a few individuals.  What has gotten under my skin is the ungracious winners in this situation many who fall somewhere(many of them on the fringes) of the conservative element that I myself belong to.  Bush won so yay and Kerry lost so yay.  Now get over it and stop dragging every liberal’s noses through the mud incessantly. 

Argue and defend your convictions when you have to but that doesn’t mean vilifying people and spilling out garbage.  We have four more years of a conservative government and it shouldn’t be spent looking back bragging and gloating.  Instead we should be looking to the future to setup policies that will prove to the public why conservative government works.  In addition why they should vote into office in 2008 another Republican who is preferably a political realist and not a neocon. And frankly while I have had issues with the moderation at times I have never once felt suppressed for being a conservative by the moderation.  With that I’ll note I have said things just as conservative as those who scream oppression yet I have not been warned.  This is not a issue of what your political views are but rather how you choose to express them and whether that expression is cordial and non offensive to others.  No our moderation and the pitfalls in it do not come down to where you stand on the political spectrum but rather personality.     

Now anyone want to call me a “'open-minded tolerant' leftist [that is] demanding other views be silenced” through my black listing and censorship?  I’d love to see someone make that case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My hero.  :love:  :love:  Thanks, CJ

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#52 Banapis

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:21 PM

Ogami, on Nov 7 2004, 04:26 PM, said:

You do realize that this board censors conservatives a lot more than they do liberals or self-described moderate progressives? That was my point, and you, Banapis, just proved it was the truth and not a generalization.
Believe what you want to believe.  However, the indisputable fact of the matter is that you posted an inflammatory generalization that clearly runs afoul of the OT guidelines voted in by the membership.

*shrugs*

If you have a problem with the "censorship" of the anti-generalization guideline you are more than welcome to start a thread in AQG and try to persuade other members to vote through a revision. :)

Banapis

#53 Godeskian

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:24 PM

to add, as I have said multiple times before, If you feel tht a liberal is getting away with something a conservative wouldn't, then let me know about it.

PM me, post a thread about it, send me some freaking smoke signals, because no mod is perfect. We miss stuff, we don't read the same nuances into things as each other, let alone a board membership that's over 1100 strong.

I've made this particular offer three times now, this will make the fourth, and I have yet to receive a single PM from anyone who is concerned over this subject.

Defy Gravity!


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#54 Vapor Trails

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:24 PM

Ogami, on Nov 7 2004, 03:26 PM, said:

Norville oozed:

Hey, Ogami, remember the rather violent offense you took in an argument with Jill Sherwin (Writergroupie), which caused her to leave ExIsle?

You have a faulty memory. I posted my views on Andromeda's production, and Writergroupie advised me that I was ignorant, and when I did not back down, Jill Writergroupie demanded myself and other Andromeda critics be banned. When this was not done she left in a huff. Classic case of an 'open-minded tolerant' leftist demanding other views be silenced. Senator McCarthy lives in the credo of the intolerant left.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I took a read at that thread. Yes, writergroupie couldn't POSSIBLY know what's she's talking about. After all, she's only worked in the industry. Ogami obviously knows more, based on all the stuff he's READ.  :sarcasm:

This type of attitude is why I won't deal with most Xena fans anymore. I've seen too much of that. And frankly I find it amazing that any professional would deal with fans, given this kind of nonsense. I'm shocked that there are "demigods" on this board at all!!  :Oo:

And am I the only one who finds Ogami's new avatar-Mr. Burns-to be QUITE apt??  :suspect:

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#55 Shalamar

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 05:57 PM

What CJ said. I'm a mod here in this forum, and I have bent over backwards to be fair to every one. If Ogami or any one feels that I have not done my job please say so up front and to my face.  If I have asked the 'conservatives' to edit more than the 'liberals' there is a reason for it - the conservatives have posted more things that, under the guideline, are editable.

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#56 MuseZack

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 06:13 PM

Michael Kinsley, bless his little blue state heart, rightly calls bulls*** on the whole "elitist liberals are oppressing us" canard.

http://www.latimes.c...omment-opinions

An excerpt:

At the moment, though, one side of the great divide is being called on for something closer to abjection than mere reconciliation.

So yes, OK, fine. I'm a terrible person — barely a person at all, really, and certainly not a real American — because I voted for the losing candidate on Tuesday. If you insist — and you do — I will rethink my fundamental beliefs from scratch because they are shared by only 47% of the electorate.

And please let me, or any other liberal, know if there is anything else we can do to abase ourselves. Abandon our core values? Pander to yours? Not a problem. Happy to do it. Anything, anything at all, to stop this shower of helpful advice.

There's just one little request I have. If it's not too much trouble, of course. Call me profoundly misguided if you want. Call me immoral if you must. But could you please stop calling me arrogant and elitist?

I mean, look at it this way. (If you don't mind, that is.) It's true that people on my side of the divide want to live in a society where women are free to choose and where gay relationships have civil equality with straight ones. And you want to live in a society where the opposite is true. These are some of those conflicting values everyone is talking about. But at least my values — as deplorable as I'm sure they are — don't involve any direct imposition on you. We don't want to force you to have an abortion or to marry someone of the same sex, whereas you do want to close out those possibilities for us. Which is more arrogant?

We on my side of the great divide don't, for the most part, believe that our values are direct orders from God. We don't claim that they are immutable and beyond argument. We are, if anything, crippled by reason and open-mindedness, by a desire to persuade rather than insist. Which philosophy is more elitist? Which is more contemptuous of people who disagree?

As many conservative voices have noted, American society suffers from a cult of grievance. To put it crudely, everyone wants some of the things blacks got from the civil rights movement: sympathy, publicity, occasional preferential treatment and a general ability to put everybody else on the defensive. No doubt liberals are responsible for this deplorable situation, and I apologize. Again. As a softheaded liberal, I even like the idea that our competitive culture has a built-in consolation prize.

But be fair! (A liberal whine, I know. Sorry.) Conservatives shouldn't assert the prerogatives of victory and then claim the compensations of defeat as well. You can't oppress us and simultaneously complain that we are oppressing you.

Well, of course you can do this, if you want. Who's to stop you? I just kinda wish you wouldn't. If you don't mind my asking. Thanks. Sorry.


Let me repeat and bold the most important part, just to get through a few (okay, one in particular) thick skulls around here:

Conservatives shouldn't assert the prerogatives of victory and then claim the compensations of defeat as well. You can't oppress us and simultaneously complain that we are oppressing you.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#57 GiGi

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 06:30 PM

Steven_Q, on Nov 7 2004, 02:22 PM, said:

I'd very much like a "What CJ said" button.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got it!  CJ that was an awesome post.  Bravo!!

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#58 Spectacles

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:40 PM

CJ, your post is the first thing I've read online from a conservative since the election that has given me any hope. I'm sure others feel the same way. Thank you. I may disagree with you on some key issues, but I respect you--and I've learned a whole lot about the military from you.  :)  

What's happening, it seems to me, is that, for some, politics is a just a partisan game. For others, we're concerned about the best course for our nation. Some think that Bush is capable of charting that course; others (like me) have great doubts. But I can respect differences as long as I know the other is informed and genuinely has the good of the nation at heart. I may still disagree and debate, but it helps to do so respectfully when you sense that the other sincerely cares about the nation more than the party.

I literally have been worried sick since the election. I worry about the deficit, the neocon influence over foreign policy (Gaffney's already arguing for expanding the war), and the evangelical influence in this administration. Granted, these are things I'm used to worrying about, but I'm wondering how far Bush will go under these influences this term. I guess we're about to find out. Anyway, I worry how American will be in four years. If Bush does a great job and gets us out of Iraq gracefully (having entered it clutzily), and miraculously halves the deficit in four years all while equitably reforming the tax code and social security, and helps America be the land of the free, not the land of the Saved--then I'll applaud him. For the good of my country, I hope he succeeds in all of the above. But I have my doubts that any of it is possible. It's that anxiety that pushes me to post. I could care less about the success of the Democratic party. It's the country I'm worried about. I want it to be prosperous, fair, strong, and free. Since Bush came into office, he has pursued policies that so far have helped us to be less of all. But maybe this time he'll get it right. How he'll do so and appease the neocons and religious right, I don't know. But we'll see.

Anyway, thanks for your post.
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#59 Vapor Trails

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 08:55 PM

MuseZack, on Nov 7 2004, 06:13 PM, said:

Let me repeat and bold the most important part, just to get through a few (okay, one in particular) thick skulls around here:

Conservatives shouldn't assert the prerogatives of victory and then claim the compensations of defeat as well. You can't oppress us and simultaneously complain that we are oppressing you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There's no material in the known universe able to get through THAT skull. :p

And I'm STILL wondering about the progress this enlisted poster is making about getting sent to the front lines in Iraq....

Talk is cheap.

:ninja:

(edited to add: enlisted.  :devil: )

Edited by Digital Man, 07 November 2004 - 08:57 PM.

Posted Image

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#60 Nick

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 09:15 PM

This is coming from *me* solely as a poster:

I'm really very disgusted with this blatant Ogami-bashing.  It's not only against the guidelines that we as a community have decided to enact, but it's downright juvenile and mean.

And before anyone gives me the lame "but he does it all the time . . . blah blah blah" excuse--I don't care.  No matter what he does, or what you think he does, it's no excuse for you to do it too.

It's still wrong to gang up on someone like this.  Like him or not, he's a person, and it's wrong to be jumping on him like this.  If Ogami's posts get under your skin that badly--put him on ignore.  This public tar-and-feathering is just ridiculous.

:glare:

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 07 November 2004 - 09:16 PM.




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