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Transcript: State of the Union Address

STOU 2003 Politics-American

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#1 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 12:37 AM

I'm still chewing on parts of the speech so I'll comment later but I thought I'd put up the transcript in case anyone missed the speech.  

State of the Union

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 07 August 2012 - 06:20 PM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#2 Godeskian

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 01:58 AM

okay, my primary thouhgt was that Bush's speechwriter has improved signifigantly since his first SoU adress,

Actually putting for evidence regarding Iraq may start setting some people's minds at ease, though there will no doubt always be protesters.

I'm not qualified to judge his economic plans, because i don't know how they would affect america knowing very little regarding the actuall movement of money in the country. It's something you have to either study, or experience through living there.

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#3 the 'Hawk

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 07:45 PM

Maybe we should re-tool his speech to meet Tribune standards.

:cool:

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#4 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 05:04 PM

Godeskian, on Jan. 29 2003,06:58, said:

okay, my primary thouhgt was that Bush's speechwriter has improved signifigantly since his first SoU adress,

Yes and no.  This speech was better on substance and contained a lot of information.  It however did lack any catchy lines like the "dustbin of history".  Though that was a rehash of the Great Communicator himself.  The following lines did however standout as fairly good to me.

"Ladies and gentlemen, seldom has history offered a greater opportunity to do so much for so many."
"The technologies of war have changed.  The risks and suffering of war have not.  "  

Quote

Actually putting for evidence regarding Iraq may start setting some people's minds at ease, though there will no doubt always be protesters.

The evidence he put forth was interesting and should at least nip the fallacy that Iraq is cooperating.  I also thought the tidbit about Al-Queda's leadership was interesting.  It pretty much verified what I figured about the middle leadership having been hit fairly hard.  

The part that hit me was the comments on the AIDS epidemic in Africa.  It looks like it has been finally acknowledged or realized that the infrastructure of Africa is flying apart and on the verge of seeing a continent depopulated.  I have a feeling though even with the extra money we're trying to stick our finger in the hole to plug the leak after the dam has burst.    

The comments on the hydrogen powered automobiles also struck me as heartening.  Maybe someone has gotten it through their heads that electric vehicles are a dead end for our current technological level.  Well unless you plan to use them in cities.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#5 Rov Judicata

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 05:08 PM

I wasn't impressed, not really.

The most important claim-- that Iraq is linked with Al Qeada-- he provided no support for.

Everything else was sophistry, partisanship, or non-controversial banality ("Old people should get senior citizens"; "AIDS is bad".).

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#6 DWF

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 07:24 PM

I wish there wasn't so much talk of 9/11, terroists, Iraq, and the threat of war. There's real problems to be solved here at home, without going overseas, to start some new war. Still, parts of the speech was, well written, I just don't think he delievered the speech all that well. :rolleyes:
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#7 DWF

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 07:55 PM

Hawk, on Jan. 30 2003,02:45, said:

Maybe we should re-tool his speech to meet Tribune standards.

:cool:
As long as it involves, GWB learning his lines, and it has a great looking woman in it, I'm there. Otherwise, this was the CSPAN edition
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#8 Norville

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 08:50 PM

Well... I listened to the speech on the radio, because I find that's the only way I can attend to Bush. If I see him on TV, I'm paying attention to his distracting smirks and other annoying mannerisms, not a good way for me to take him seriously.

He *sounded* serious, at least. He had a good speechwriter. But it was words more than anything useful, IMHO.

*Proof* that Iraq has dealings with Al Qaeda, when Al Qaeda fanatics tend to hate Saddam Hussein (because he's not Islamic enough for them)?

Anything concrete on how we can help Africa? Pretty words, but Africa has been in chaos for years, and it's rather late to start helping now. (Of course, people *have* sent help, but aid usually is stolen by warlords and the like, never allowed to actually reach the people who need help the most.) Part of me still would prefer that we help our own people at home first, before intruding anywhere else, even in the name of "help"...

Quote

"The technologies of war have changed.  The risks and suffering of war have not."

Hmm, he's actually learned something. War may look like fun, but it always has a cost. Theodore Roosevelt was addicted to war, until he lost his favorite son in WW1, and that just about destroyed him. Before Bush pushes too much harder for war, could his daughters be drafted? :devil:

Pardon me, I'm just feeling deeply cynical.

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#9 JadziaDax

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 09:28 PM

If I posted what my math class decided on, after a very odd conversation......well...um....just remember that no one at my school likes Bush one bit.

Which is probably why we all got a good laugh during math class. I can only imagine the fun the freshmen gov classes had.

But aside from that I'll say that his speechwriter has improved.

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#10 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 29 January 2003 - 11:46 PM

Quote

Norville: *Proof* that Iraq has dealings with Al Qaeda, when Al Qaeda fanatics tend to hate Saddam Hussein (because he's not Islamic enough for them)?

Well alliances of convenience sometimes will breed very strange bedfellows.  We know at least that he has funded terrorism against Israel.  Likes to al-Queda though unorthodox wouldn't surprise me in the least.  The problem with giving out further details is that information was probably encountered through HUMINT.  That implies someone on the ground in Iraq feeding us the information.  If you give out details on the source or who the al-Queda members in Iraq are they can trace it back to the operative.  Would you want to be a operative for a country that blabs information on details that can be used to ferret you out?    

Quote

Norville: (Of course, people *have* sent help, but aid usually is stolen by warlords and the like, never allowed to actually reach the people who need help the most.)

I tend to agree.  Just look at the situation in Somalia.  Though hopefully after Iraq and North Korea are dealt with Somalia will be next on the list for a house cleaning.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#11 Delvo

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Posted 30 January 2003 - 08:27 PM

I was also surprised that he didn't mention why it is that we know that Al-Qaeda and Iraq are linked. That news came out a LONG time ago. It involved numerous long meetings between the bigshots of AQ and the Iraqi regime, and an AQ training site in Iraq, financially and logstically supported by Iraq, where the classroom was a Boeing passnger jet fuselage provided by Iraq. In fact, it was primarily based on these links to Iraq that Bin Laden's head was once offered to President Clinton years ago by another government in the region (I don't remember which) that was friendlier to us and knew exactly where and how to easily get him at the time. Like all the stuff about Iraq's weapons, though, that was OLD news; the dismaying thing about people's reactions to that speech is that they reveal how little attention most people were paying to the facts all along.

...well, that and the fact that some people remained so mired in their anti-Republican or anti-Bush dogmatic brainrot that even when he described proposals for liberal programs they LIKE, they still couldn't help but spit out their usual old lies about his supposed past words/actions that supposedly conflicted...


#12 Godeskian

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Posted 31 January 2003 - 09:25 AM

I think i was rather impressed by some of what he said,

assuming he follows through on it.
[edit] that's not a slam against Bush, but i live under a goverment who has so far broken two parts of it's manifesto (they said, no new top up fees for universities, they said tough on crime. We now have top up fees and burglars arnew't being prosecuited :o  becuase we don't have the jail space.)

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#13 Norville

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 03:15 PM

Quote

the dismaying thing about people's reactions to that speech is that they reveal how little attention most people were paying to the facts all along.

Well, then, Delvo knows all. *shrug* Fine.

Quote

...well, that and the fact that some people remained so mired in their anti-Republican or anti-Bush dogmatic brainrot that even when he described proposals for liberal programs they LIKE, they still couldn't help but spit out their usual old lies about his supposed past words/actions that supposedly conflicted...

Yawn. Label, label, label. LIBERAL scum spews lies about [fill in the blank], is that it? Guess what, Delvo? I read constantly. I've also got a case of information exhaustion, where I can't remember hearing about things though I read about them, or can't remember where I heard about them though I recently read/heard about them. Go stuff your political attack, please; I'm not in the mood this morning.

But no, I'm not a Bush fan. I don't owe you an explanation, actually. You're welcome to show your own "dogmatic brainrot" by continuing with your attack labels. It's so entertaining. :sarcasm:

I've got to remember never to discuss politics... ever.

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Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#14 StarDust

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 04:33 PM

Well, if we have to give credentials :-) I've always been republican, but like most I know I'm a moderate. Therefore I haven't voted republican in a major election in some time, so in reality I guess I'm more independent, but I won't give up. It was a sad day indeed when the Christian Coalitian decided to grab the party, they are the ani-thesis of what a republican should be. And I don't like Bush, although I have much more respect for the man since 9/11. And liking or disliking him, even doubting some of his personal motives, doesn't mean I disagree with all his actions. I don't care if he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, it's still the right thing. Just like doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, is still the wrong thing. Since I could write an essay on my thoughts of the man, I'll leave it at that.

Norville, on Jan. 29 2003,20:50, said:

*Proof* that Iraq has dealings with Al Qaeda, when Al Qaeda fanatics tend to hate Saddam Hussein (because he's not Islamic enough for them)?

This means nothing. People who despise each other often work together for a common goal. Nothing new there. We worked with the Soviets at the end of WWII, even though there is no doubt how much we despised each other. But Hitler turned on them, they needed help, and we took advantage of the situation. No biggie really. Although it does piss me off when Russians try to say they were our allies. They got screwed by the other side, they were not willingly on our side. Big difference.

We helped what is now Al Queda when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Short sighted or not, we had a common enemy. I thought it was funny how everyone thought it was gonna be hard to win in Afghanistan because of how they beat the Soviets. Everyone seemed to forget the beat them with our help, on their own it would have been very questionable.

So it would not be at all unreasonable for them to put their differences aside for now to go against a common foe, US, and then fight each other later. Although I'm still unsure how we were the enemy of Al Queda, we mostly ignored them and their attacks on us over the last decade. I think it was more a case of a bully trying to prove how tough they were and make a name for themselves by going after the Big Guy in the neighborhood (the planet). Happens.

Quote

Anything concrete on how we can help Africa? Pretty words, but Africa has been in chaos for years, and it's rather late to start helping now. (Of course, people *have* sent help, but aid usually is stolen by warlords and the like, never allowed to actually reach the people who need help the most.) Part of me still would prefer that we help our own people at home first, before intruding anywhere else, even in the name of "help"...

So you suggest we do nothing? So are you an isolationist? When do you think 'our problems at home' are going to clear up? There will always be problems here, that is just an excuse. I certainly understand the feelings. There are plenty of times that I FEEL we should just say to hell with them all.  See how well they do on their own. We put up with an incredible amount of crap, and get no credit or appreciation for anything we do, so why bother?  Because, despite what I FEEL, I KNOW better.

It is in our own best interest.  To think that any problems out their are going to stop at our borders is naive at best. The question is usually how much effort it's going to take us to deal with the problem now as opposed to later. Because it's certain we'll get pulled in to everything, sooner or later, whether we're dragged kicking and screaming or not.

Spending  a huge amount of money on aids will definitely benefit us, not just Africa. I don't know if you are aware of the crazy stuff going on over there. Witch doctors have told people that sex with a virgin will cure them, so there has been a huge increase of rapes, especially of children. Spending money on medicine and education will not only help in terms of the disease, but better education and health could improve the volatile nature of the whole continent. It is probably the most backwards (not in a good way) part of the whole planet, and that isn't good for anyone. It means wars that we can't avoid, refugees the world has to figure out what to do with, and disease that spreads. Some of the worst diseases we know come from Africa.  

So if you have no compassion for those people, especially the children, then self-interest alone should be enough.  Problems here at home or not, the world continues and we need to continue to deal with it. No one has the luxury of dealing with one problem at a time.

And who knows, maybe it'll help research. Maybe they will even find the penecillian for viruses in general. Something desperately needed since we are essentially helpless against them.


Quote

Quote

"The technologies of war have changed.  The risks and suffering of war have not."

Hmm, he's actually learned something. War may look like fun, but it always has a cost. Theodore Roosevelt was addicted to war, until he lost his favorite son in WW1, and that just about destroyed him. Before Bush pushes too much harder for war, could his daughters be drafted? :devil:

Who ever said war was fun ??!! I don't know what world you live in, but no normal person in my world thinks that.  It doesn't mean it isn't necessary. A loss now could prevent a greater loss later. Nothing comes without a price. Our freedom didn't come without a price, and continues to exist at a price. Part of that price is being powerful and willing to step up to the plate. It makes others think twice before trying to take what we have away from us. Simple psychology really.


#15 Appreciate

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 04:43 PM

Reminder:  Please attack ideas, not posters.

Political discussions cause disagreements.  It's evidence of the board's wonderful diversity.  Disagreements are fine, but let's keep them civil, OK?  I really appreciate it.

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#16 Bad Wolf

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 04:45 PM

I listened to part of it and found I couldn't stomach it.

No surprises there.

Lil

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#17 Rayhana

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Posted 01 February 2003 - 08:59 PM

Have to agree with Lil.  I coiuldn't stomach it either.  I feel the same way about his brothers speech, but I tend to listen to them because they give me some insight as to how much longer I just might have my job.

#18 Godeskian

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Posted 02 February 2003 - 02:54 PM

I actually have less trouble with what he says than how he says it on TV.

he seemed to spend a lot of time licking his lips and squinting. Made me turn right off

Defy Gravity!


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