Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Should the Age Of Consent Be Lowered?

Age of consent sex Different States Law

  • Please log in to reply
151 replies to this topic

#101 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 10 November 2004 - 11:51 PM

Quote

Rockhound

Quote

sierraleone
So we should force BC on children and against their parent's objections? And you think this is going to help? The children and the parents would resent it. I know I would have as a teenager, being a responsible one. And how does forcing it on children teach them responsibility?

Well, we can stick them for things they'll probably never be exposed to.  We can give them a standardized education that can conflict with the beliefs of their parents.  Why can't we protect them from something that can potentially ruin their life: having a baby before being able to deliver it safely? 'Sides, children get raped by the real perverts, and sometimes get preggers...there you go...a little insurance.

A person can homeschool their children. As for immunizations, they prevent them from it seldem happening again and they are immunized maybe 2 times for the same disease.
BC won't neccessarily do that. First of all, its next to near unenforceable (get this pill in your kid once a day, perferable around the same time of day.... yeah, right). Second of all I wonder how many laws would be twisted? Parents right to raise their kid how'd they like? What about Catholic parents who don't believe in birth control on religious grounds? Heck, I remember reading about when the governments in many places had sterilized undesirable people. I think most of the rulings in the end said the government had no right sterializing people, I think one could easily extend that to forcing birthcontrol on half of the under 18 population :p

Quote

Rockhound

Quote

sierraleone
You know, for some kids its younger than 8. W/ Precocous (sp?) puberty it has happen as young as 5. A 5 yr old wouldn't be able to carry a child, much less understand what sex is for nor all the implications. Physical capacity as in ovulating, or physical capacity as in their body is physically mature enough to carry a child to term w/ out too much trouble on average?

You know, you're never going to come up with a system that covers everyone...you have to come up with a system that protects and yet gives individual liberties all at once.  In the cases you just mentioned, abortion is also an option.

Of course, and thats the point I'm trying to make, there is a reason why there is an arbitrary age. You keep using puberty as an age we should start giving PC or make the age of consent. You know, menstration *follows* an ovulation, so if you wait until their first period you're waiting too later  :ninja:

Quote

Rockhound

Quote

sierraleone
Granted, it one is to go w/ this idea, I do not know of any drugs currently that would stop sperm production in males, so the only one we can enforce for sure, is somekind of BC on the females. Still doesn't make it a good idea. And still doesn't address STDs or actually teaching responsbility to males or females.

It's a better idea than closing your eyes and hoping for the best.  Besides, just because an 11 year old is on the pill doesn't necessary guarantee she's going to go out and bang away with the next 30 year old guy she meets.

If shes not going to have sex, why does she need to be unneccessarily on a drug for 5 yrs? I wonder what the long term effects of using BC is, especially at young ages.

Quote

Rockhound

Quote

sierraleone
And her parents, who are legally responsible for her? Going to likely be paying her medical bills/etc if it comes to that?

Yes, they are, after all, responsible for her actions.

Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids. Heck, parents can influence behavour, but can never really control it, at any age, unless they brainwash their kids :p What about the responsibility of the other party in the action their teenager child participated in?

Quote

Rockhound

Quote

sierraleone
No, pleasure it not such an ugly thing. But AIDs is. Broken hearts are. Beadbeat parents are. Having to choose between an abortion, or adoption, or keeping a child & changing your plans for the future can be. And when that older person isn't responsble, not caring about this younger person and causes any, one, or all of these this, it is an ugly thing.

All things that adults also face.  No reason to deny the pleasures of sex to those who've been deemed too young simply because of outdated mores and fears.

Which outdated mores and fears? That teenagers, on average, are going to be less ready/able to handle the bad consequences of sex than the average adult? (all of which are mentioned above). Or that we shouldn't drug them all w/ BC and hand them all condoms so they can have the pleasures of sex?

Edit: The pleasure and responsbility of sex. We demand people wait until they are 16 to get the pleasure and responsbility of legally driving a vehicle. 18/19 for drinking/smoking/voting.

Edited by sierraleone, 11 November 2004 - 12:20 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#102 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 01:15 AM

Digital Man, on Nov 10 2004, 05:28 PM, said:

I have a question-is this true in EVERY case, or are you making a generalization? I'm not saying I don't agree with the idea behind what you say (I agree-women should play a part in making these laws), but I have a problem with generalizations. :)

Just trying to set the record straight, counselor. ;)

:cool:

Saul

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



If it's NOT consensual then what is it?  It's rape right?  There are laws that cover that right?  If it's a kid then it's pedophilia right?  There are laws that cover that too.

What's left?  Laws that cover other situations.  Meaning NOT a kid (or why the  need for statutory rape because it would be covered under pedophilia) and NOT unconsensual (or why the need for statutory rape because it would be covered under other rape laws).  It's a situation where in the eyes of the law someone (and let's get real, the people who wrote these laws are mostly men) has determined that someone (usually a woman and that's just the way it works out), although old enough not to be called a kid (or they'd be covered under the pedophilia laws) and sometimes old enough to do things like have a job and drive, is apparently, does not have the capacity to consent to sex.  

It's not "rape" in my book.

Edited by Una Salus Lillius, 11 November 2004 - 01:17 AM.

Posted Image

#103 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 02:28 AM

sierraleone, on Nov 11 2004, 05:51 AM, said:

Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids.

Truth be told, parents never did have much control over their kids, their protestations notwithstanding

Quote

Which outdated mores and fears? That teenagers, on average, are going to be less ready/able to handle the bad consequences of sex than the average adult

Uhm, point of information, but the notion that a 16 year old is anything less than fully vested is a new notion, not an old one. Going all the way back to ancient egypt, right up untill the mid 17th century, a 16 year old was often called on, and expected to shoulder the same load as any other adult. It's only very recently, in the history of mankind, that we decided that legally, anyone under 18 wasn't capable of being an adult.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#104 WildChildCait

WildChildCait

    And from the ashes of fire, she is reborn

  • Islander
  • 3,416 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 08:13 AM

Rockhound

You thought that was 'quite a respons'?
I edited that four times before I felt it was civil enough to post.
I do not like men telling me i  should be taking toxic crap to compensate for the fact they are not willing to take equal responsibility. It takes two to tango, so two are repsonsible for any slips or falls.

I would also like to second Rhea's commend about finding the title offensive. That kind of comment does not help and that is exactly the kind of comment why i stated it treats women like cattle.  - as usually humans procreate, not breed. That is what cattle does.

i realise there is little difference in those two words but perception, but they do offend.
RIP Ruby Medallion: 31-10-1999/21-05-2007
one gender-reassigned, world travelling, world class snake.

FKA Chaddee, amongst other things.
http://scentedalchemy.webs.com Custom handmade bath and body products

#105 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 09:49 AM

Quote

Steven_Q

Quote

sierraleone
Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids.

Truth be told, parents never did have much control over their kids, their protestations notwithstanding

Wheres the rest of my quote :D

Quote

sierraleone
Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids. Heck, parents can influence behavour, but can never really control it, at any age, unless they brainwash their kids  What about the responsibility of the other party in the action their teenager child participated in?

Quote

Steven_Q

Quote

sierraleone
Which outdated mores and fears? That teenagers, on average, are going to be less ready/able to handle the bad consequences of sex than the average adult.

Uhm, point of information, but the notion that a 16 year old is anything less than fully vested is a new notion, not an old one. Going all the way back to ancient egypt, right up untill the mid 17th century, a 16 year old was often called on, and expected to shoulder the same load as any other adult. It's only very recently, in the history of mankind, that we decided that legally, anyone under 18 wasn't capable of being an adult.

True, but what is Rockhound calling outdated modes and fears then? Thats what I was trying to figure out. As HM thread a while ago, maybe we should give more responsibilities to teenager, but unless we reconstruct society its not very feasible. A teenager gets pregnant likely their parents are going to be helping them for the first several yrs. Its not like in the past where they could marry no problem. Perhaps the extension of childhood is the problem, but find some reasonable way to reverse it, is this the best way way to do it?
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#106 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:08 AM

Old thread on the age of adulthood and the speed of getting there

Just a few simple law changes would make a huge start on this kind of problem. One would be a universal adult-age unification bill that says whatever age is declared to be the age of adulthood is also the age of legal alcohol consumption, voting, sexual consent, automatic independence from parental authority, choice not to continue at school anymore, and such. If such a bill were passed, the only question would then be what this universal number should be, and some people would think 18 at first, but the bill's passage would cause people to stop and think about it more than they did before, and I believe people would end up agreeing something lower. There were also some other ideas I and others mentioned in that thread on how to make it pheasible to get it down to a more natural 15 or 16 (and stretching it to 13 or 14 could even be doable, if not for the resistance some would put up against it in this culture).

#107 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:14 AM

sierraleone, on Nov 11 2004, 03:49 PM, said:

Quote

Steven_Q

Quote

sierraleone
Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids.

Truth be told, parents never did have much control over their kids, their protestations notwithstanding

Wheres the rest of my quote :D

Snipped because it didn't relate to what I meant. What I mean was that throughout history, parents have never really controlled their offspring.  The rest of your quote seemed to have to do with the physical age of the offspring, rather than the historical point i was trying to make.

Quote

True, but what is Rockhound calling outdated modes and fears then?

beats me.  Rockhound?

Delvo, I really like your idea.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#108 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:17 AM

^ Delvo
Its funny how you say a age to not continue school anymore if they so desire and my province is actually thinking about *raising* that age. I don't neccessarily agree w/ it. School would need to be restructered if we wanted them to finish school by that age.

Its isn't just about putting some marker at age 15 or 16 for adulthood, you still need to get them prepare to be an adult by that age, and that means parents rethink how they raise their kids before that age, when they start getting them to help w/ chores to teach them responsibility and that sort of thing. The way the average kid is raised now, they would not likely be ready at that age. And if we leave highschool graduation at 18. Parents, while may still support their kids up to that age, would not be legally responsible for them. Does a kid in highschool have medical coverage by themselves? If they did make adulthood 16 though, it'd be harder to argue against sex-ed, a parent would have no say over their kids sex-ed in school after that age  :devil: (of course, the school would have no say over whether they attended health classes or not either).

Edited by sierraleone, 11 November 2004 - 10:26 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#109 Nikcara

Nikcara

    confused little imp

  • Islander
  • 3,500 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:18 AM

eryn, on Nov 10 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

Rockhound: You realize that some girls reach puberty at the age of 8 now right? Do you really propose to put them on birth control until the "right" age? Besides isn't that just a tad illegal?

Sorry but I'm not doing that to my daughter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I've actually heard of lower than that - one of my friends in highschool had her first period in the 1st grade.  Also, girls on average are getting their periods younger and younger as time goes on.  I've heard theories that it has to do with the hormones we feed our livestock with and thus ingest when we eat meat, but I haven't done any actualy research onto the topic (than again, I heard this from my biology teacher who I generally trust to know her stuff)
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama

#110 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:25 AM

Quote

Steven_Q

Quote

sierraleone
Any parent of teenagers know they are fast coming to an age where they don't have control over their kids.

Truth be told, parents never did have much control over their kids, their protestations notwithstanding

Quote

sierraleone
Wheres the rest of my quote :D

Snipped because it didn't relate to what I meant. What I mean was that throughout history, parents have never really controlled their offspring.  The rest of your quote seemed to have to do with the physical age of the offspring, rather than the historical point i was trying to make.

Well, yeah, any parent having a temper tantrum in a grocery store knows that :D I assume you mean after the age of puberty. I was just teasing you, because in actions.the rest of my quote I admited parents didn't have control over their children. Though they are expected to, as they are legally responsible for their children's actions.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#111 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:28 AM

Nope, I meant that parents in ancient Rome probably despaired at their unruly children much as parents today do, and that kids in sub-mycenean Greece, were probably jsut as flighty and disobedient as kids today are.

Control is an illusion.  :purpleninja:

Edited by Steven_Q, 11 November 2004 - 10:29 AM.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#112 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:32 AM

^ I know, but its the only comfort some people have ;) BTW, I love this quote my mom uses in her email:

Quote

Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BC)

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#113 Whispy

Whispy
  • Just Washed Ashore
  • 27 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:52 AM

I don't want to see the age of consent lowered period.  I think it would cause more problems in the long run.

If the USA decided to change the age of consent, I would hope it would be put to the voters.  What I mean by that, is I would want to know what mandatory requirements would come with the lowering of that age.  If a law were going to be passed lowering the age of consent to 14, and carried with it a requirement of placing the young person on birth control, I would vote against.  

I also don't believe in sexual promiscuity, no matter how wonderful it is, and how wonderful it feels and how satisfying it is.  

I definately agree that education is a must, and the more education that is out there, the better.  I also am not so unaware as to realize that kids will do anything, simply because they can, (without parents knowing).  That doesn't mean I would want a mandatory law created that forced parents who don't agree with a mandatory vaccine( some form of birth control) to comply.

Just because kids will can engage in sex whenever, and do, doesn't mean it is the best action.

Just how I feel.   :)

#114 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:56 AM

Delvo, on Nov 11 2004, 10:08 AM, said:

Old thread on the age of adulthood and the speed of getting there

Just a few simple law changes would make a huge start on this kind of problem. One would be a universal adult-age unification bill that says whatever age is declared to be the age of adulthood is also the age of legal alcohol consumption, voting, sexual consent, automatic independence from parental authority, choice not to continue at school anymore, and such. If such a bill were passed, the only question would then be what this universal number should be, and some people would think 18 at first, but the bill's passage would cause people to stop and think about it more than they did before, and I believe people would end up agreeing something lower. There were also some other ideas I and others mentioned in that thread on how to make it pheasible to get it down to a more natural 15 or 16 (and stretching it to 13 or 14 could even be doable, if not for the resistance some would put up against it in this culture).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks for quoting this thread, Delvo.  

I think the point has to be made as strongly as possible - and I'm not happy at all that the threadstarter here did not address this point - children are not adults until they are - and we ought not be talking about changing the age of consent laws until children are adults.  

I think there is a moral perversity to the idea that we should simply abandon children to any kind of sexual behavior they are inclined to, or advertise to adults that children are available for consensual sex when children are otherwise not able to be fully responsible for themselves.  Restructure society to make responsible adult members of the society at younger ages, and then you can lower the age of consent.   Statuatory rape laws make sense because children are inherently dependent on adults - they do not have the right to make adult decisions, and any adult decisions they make are potentially compromised by the adults involved.  This isn't because they can't think for themselves, but because nothing in the society has prepared them for the level of responsibility they are taking on themselves.

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#115 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:58 AM

^ thank you HM for saying so much better what I'm thinking :D
:thumbs-up:

Edited by sierraleone, 11 November 2004 - 11:04 AM.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#116 Rockhound

Rockhound

    I've seen so much "spin" I'm getting drunk!

  • Islander
  • 201 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 04:43 PM

Yeah, thank you too, HM, but can you tell me when children become adults?

I know some early teens who are more adultlike than most of their grownup counterparts, and I'm sure you do too.

Or could we explain young teens "not being ready for sex" as being culturally retarded because society tells them they aren't ready?  It's the same argument used for blacks and voting in the South long ago: they just aren't capable of making a major decision.

Perhaps if we let our kids mature at the rate that's good for them without antiquated rules, we might get surprised.
"Wow. This is a ga'damn greek tragedy." ---Rockhound

#117 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 04:54 PM

Rockhound, on Nov 11 2004, 04:43 PM, said:

Yeah, thank you too, HM, but can you tell me when children become adults?

I know some early teens who are more adultlike than most of their grownup counterparts, and I'm sure you do too.

Yes, I do.  But it isn't the majority, or even a sizeable minority, and therefore no laws should be enacted to unprotect the majority of kids.

Quote

Or could we explain young teens "not being ready for sex" as being culturally retarded because society tells them they aren't ready?  It's the same argument used for blacks and voting in the South long ago: they just aren't capable of making a major decision.

Thats offensive, and I'm not accepting that you don't know that it isn't.  There isn't ANY comparison whatsoever.

Quote

Perhaps if we let our kids mature at the rate that's good for them without antiquated rules, we might get surprised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Did you even read the other thread?

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#118 sierraleone

sierraleone

    All things Great and Mischievous

  • Islander
  • 9,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 04:56 PM

^ aniquated? like Steven_Q said, making them adults "young" is the historic way, old and antiquated indeed ;)

Oh, I figure some teenagers could surprise us. But the US in some ways (w/ some people) aren't even ready for having their kids get proper sexual educations in highschool, even at the higher end of age 16 and 17 :wacko: You think the US voting public is ready for *this*?

Besides, as HM said, the parents are legally responsible for their children's well being until 18(?), unless they are emancipated. That means the parents have rights to make decisions about their child's/teenager's well being. About what is or isn't good about their well being. I'm sure my definiation of what is good for a child's well being is different from some other parents, but it certainly hard to say its child abuse to not want them to be having sex w/ people much older than themselves.
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#119 Lover of Purple

Lover of Purple

    Mustang Man

  • Retired Board Owner
  • 11,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 05:04 PM

Rhea, on Nov 10 2004, 08:48 PM, said:

I don't think the age of consent should be lowered. It's there for a reason - to protect a portion of the population who are absolutely certain that they know everything there is to know about everything while not even in possession of the questions, much less the answers. :p :p :p

I remember *exactly* what it was like to be a teenager - but I think there always ought to be laws in place so that an ADULT will have to think a lot - preferrably more than once or twice - before having sex with a kid.

And BTW, I find the thread title EXTREMELY offensive. The people who suffered the most under the medieval "old enough to bleed" crap were women. Just because a woman is old enough to have menstruate does not mean her body is mature enough to deal with pregnancy.

We might as well just go back to the days when 12-year-old girls were bartered off to old men as their brides for economic advantage. :barf:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Brace yourselves, but I agree with Rhea! (Is this like a first or something ;) ). Maybe SOME children are responsible at 14 or 15 or even 17 but most are not. Laws protect them as well as help parents protect them.

And to suggest that females be put on some kind of mandatory birth control is asinine AND sexists. Talk about looking down on women. Sheesh. I respect women way too much to ever do something like that.

The only "advantage" to lowering the age of consent would be for lazy parents that want their kids out. I can see it now: "Well, suzy, you're 14 and the law says you are at the consenting age. Get out and get a job!"

Edited by Lover of Purple, 11 November 2004 - 05:05 PM.


#120 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 11 November 2004 - 11:19 PM

Lover of Purple, on Nov 11 2004, 02:04 PM, said:

Brace yourselves, but I agree with Rhea! (Is this like a first or something ;) ).

LOL! No, we often don't agree on politics is all. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{LoP}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Age of consent, sex, Different States, Law

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users